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  #41  
Old September 12th, 2013, 03:58 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Don't give up! You can solve this and will reap the rewards of being self sufficient. A y money you would spend at a shop can get you tools.

So, sounds like its time to take the battery to get checked. Places like autozone can do this and charge it too for free.

Don't limit getting help to rover people. A competent jeeper could help just as well - look for dirty lifted trucks and strike up a conversation.

Harbor freight has cheap multimeters and tools.

Best of luck,
Charles
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  #42  
Old September 12th, 2013, 04:07 PM
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Thanks for the motivation, it does get a little daunting trying to get it going. Ironically a few lifted trucks came by and helped out before when it wouldn't start.

I was going to get a multi-meter later, I think they're like $20 from auto-zone, and figure out how to check it myself.
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  #43  
Old September 12th, 2013, 04:20 PM
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Russell
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Conor, welcome to the community and great to see your interest in rolling up your sleeves to so say. In addition to your wise concern of getting rolled over, don't wear rings/jewelry when working on cars. Metal rings are very low in resistance and can carry some series currents at 12VDC (like when working around that starter solenoid). More than enough to burn a finger off. That or get caught on something.

All farms might work out for you -- give one of the tractor mechanics a look. That essentially is all a diesel Defender is anyways.
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  #44  
Old September 12th, 2013, 06:32 PM
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I checked the battery- set the multi-meter to 20 vdc and got a reading of 12.77 to 12.8 when the car was off. When I turned the key to start it dipped down to 12.0 to 12.3. Does that mean its a bad alternator?
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  #45  
Old September 12th, 2013, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
Thanks for the motivation, it does get a little daunting trying to get it going. Ironically a few lifted trucks came by and helped out before when it wouldn't start.

I was going to get a multi-meter later, I think they're like $20 from auto-zone, and figure out how to check it myself.
A test bulb and long leads can be just as good as a multimeter for simple checks like is the electricity actually getting to the component, easier to interpret the results, bulb lights up or not, cheap and easily repairable. I use a LR side light complete.

I suspect two issues:-
1) failing clutch, maybe master and /or slave cylinder seals failing, relatively easy to replace or the clutch fork failing and the push rod from the slave cylinder punching through or the clutch friction plate breaking up. Pull the engine rather than the transmission to check the clutch basket. What milage has the truck done?
2) wiring issue either in the ignition switch, wires leading from the switch to the starter. solenoid.

With the gear box and transfer box in neutral the engine can't move the truck. Neutral on the transfer box is half way between hi and low.
Just try and work through the problem logically, start at one end of the wiring and work through to the other end. Wait for your work shop manual to arrive.
They are simple to work on once you get the hang of it.

------ Follow up post added September 12th, 2013 11:53 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
I checked the battery- set the multi-meter to 20 vdc and got a reading of 12.77 to 12.8 when the car was off. When I turned the key to start it dipped down to 12.0 to 12.3. Does that mean its a bad alternator?
NO.
did the starter spin?
Did the engine turn over?

------ Follow up post added September 12th, 2013 11:55 PM ------

Voltage will drop when the starter spins.
Alternator won't do anything until the motor is running.
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  #46  
Old September 12th, 2013, 07:02 PM
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Hey Connor get back on line!
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  #47  
Old September 12th, 2013, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover View Post
A test bulb and long leads can be just as good as a multimeter for simple checks like is the electricity actually getting to the component, easier to interpret the results, bulb lights up or not, cheap and easily repairable. I use a LR side light complete.

I suspect two issues:-
1) failing clutch, maybe master and /or slave cylinder seals failing, relatively easy to replace or the clutch fork failing and the push rod from the slave cylinder punching through or the clutch friction plate breaking up. Pull the engine rather than the transmission to check the clutch basket. What milage has the truck done?
2) wiring issue either in the ignition switch, wires leading from the switch to the starter. solenoid.

With the gear box and transfer box in neutral the engine can't move the truck. Neutral on the transfer box is half way between hi and low.
Just try and work through the problem logically, start at one end of the wiring and work through to the other end. Wait for your work shop manual to arrive.
They are simple to work on once you get the hang of it.

------ Follow up post added September 12th, 2013 11:53 PM ------


NO.
did the starter spin?
Did the engine turn over?

------ Follow up post added September 12th, 2013 11:55 PM ------

Voltage will drop when the starter spins.
Alternator won't do anything until the motor is running.
I'm back! The starter didn't spin, the engine didn't turn, just a faint click from I could hear inside the cab. It seemed like it was a completely dead batter but the multi-meter said otherwise.
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  #48  
Old September 12th, 2013, 10:28 PM
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Dead battery means no amp left to crank engine. Voltage will still be in the 12V range (well, really really dead a little below 12).

I might have missed this: gas or Diesel engine? If diesel, remember that you need to get the glow plug going before the engine will start (well... Makes life easier for an engine that has not started in a while). Anyway, starter needs to turn first before that is a concern.

I would definitely get the battery charged before moving forward.
What kind of noise do you get when you turn the key to start the engine? A "click click click" = discharged battery where trying to engage starter sucks any power left in it and it fails so solenoid drops.
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  #49  
Old September 13th, 2013, 01:46 PM
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That sounds like an almost completely discharged battery.
You need power to hold the stop solenoid open so the engine will run, not nearly as much as is needed to spin the motor though. What about the main lights are they bright or dim?
Do they dim noticeably when you try and start the engine? All signs of a flat battery.

Get the battery on charge or swapped out for a known good battery.

Have you managed to get neutral on the main or transfer boxes?
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  #50  
Old September 13th, 2013, 02:48 PM
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Thanks again everyone, I haven't had much time to do work on the rover today but I will try to get a new battery. Any recommendations on what to get?

I can get it into neutral now- didn't have difficulty, I didn't try the transfer box yet.
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  #51  
Old September 13th, 2013, 03:06 PM
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If the voltage stayed above 12 when you turned the key, chances are the starter solenoid is not engaging and the click you are hearing is another relay. If the solenoid was trying to engage the starter and your battery was low, your voltage would drop way down probably below 10v.

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that the wire to the ignition switch (white with red tracer on a factory harness) has fallen off the starter solenoid exciter terminal.

Check that before you get a new anything.



Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
Thanks again everyone, I haven't had much time to do work on the rover today but I will try to get a new battery. Any recommendations on what to get?

I can get it into neutral now- didn't have difficulty, I didn't try the transfer box yet.
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  #52  
Old September 13th, 2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that the wire to the ignition switch (white with red tracer on a factory harness) has fallen off the starter solenoid exciter terminal.

Check that before you get a new anything.
Exact same thing happened to me a month or so ago, the wire fell off the ignition barrel.
once the battery is charged you can run a lead from the small terminal on the starter (the one with the white/red wire) and touch it onto the +ve terminal on the battery, the starter should spin the engine if the battery is good but the engine shouldn't fire because there won't be power to the stop solenoid. But this will prove if the starter is good once the battery is charged.
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  #53  
Old September 13th, 2013, 04:37 PM
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1. Do the wire check as renching and mikeslandrover mentioned. Fix as necessary.
2. Do not replace the battery yet. Use your other car and some jumper cables and charge the dead battery first. You should be able to get enough charge into the battery to start the truck again. Once the truck starts, then it will charge the battery.

However:

If the truck is running but does not charge the battery then check the dummy light wire. It must be hooked to the dummy light. Do this before you think that the alternator is "dead".
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  #54  
Old September 13th, 2013, 08:21 PM
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The truck is running! I secured all the connections to the ignition barrel and had to give it some gas (diesel) to get it started. Thanks everyone!
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  #55  
Old September 13th, 2013, 08:40 PM
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Great news! Now: Fresh oil/coolant/brake fluid/etc in every component and new filters!
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  #56  
Old September 13th, 2013, 09:39 PM
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Don Bunnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
The truck is running! I secured all the connections to the ignition barrel and had to give it some gas (diesel) to get it started. Thanks everyone!
Congrats! I am very glad you didn't listen to me and bring it to a shop Nice job up:
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  #57  
Old September 14th, 2013, 08:29 AM
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Splendid.
Slowly you'll tackle more & more and not be daunted when little things crop up.
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  #58  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 09:02 PM
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So the problem came back. It started fine on Thursday, poured rain all night, Friday it turned once then nothing and since then it won't even turn over.

When I turn the key I get dash lights, radio works etc but nothing from the starter.

The starter is new, the battery is a new optima red-top, and the ground is in good shape. I took the ignition switch apart and cleaned the connections and put on some dielectric grease but still just dash lights and some clicks from the dash and behind the fuse panel.

Any suggestions? Bad relay somewhere?
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  #59  
Old November 3rd, 2013, 03:32 AM
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Run the checks again, retrace what you did to fix it last time. It is after all a truck getting on for 30 years old.
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  #60  
Old November 3rd, 2013, 07:17 AM
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I didn't read all 50+ or so posts, but do recall you had something going on at the ignition switch.
If you don't have a volt meter or battery charger that will give volt readings, try and borrow one.
Check the battery voltage which is probably OK and recheck the ground.
We had a 110 that would not start when it would rain and it turned out to be a bad ground, so check the ground again.

You can also run a check by putting the t-case and main box in neutral.
Setting the brake
Turning on the key
get under
Disconnect the white with red wire from the starter solenoid
touch a wire between the lug with the battery cable and the spade that had the white with red wire
If the engine turns over at a good pace then the problem is in the starter circuit and you'll know the ground and battery are good.
Make sure clothing and body are clear of the engine when running this type of test and be careful
You can sometimes find a remote starter switch at an auto supply that you can hook up to the spade and lug on the starter and then stand off to the side and push the starter button to turn over the engine.
Either way, this will tell you if the battery and ground are good or bad and isolate the problem to the starter circuit which is the most probable cause for your failure.
Then it becomes just a matter of tracing the white with red circuit from the starter solenoid back to the IG switch.

Hope this helps.
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