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  #21  
Old September 11th, 2013, 06:39 PM
MonLand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
I cleaned and sanded all the connectors and where they connect to the frame, could it still be that?
If you know what you are doing, you should check the ground from the starter to the battery and confirm it looks good. If you are not sure how to do this (with a test light or an ohmmeter), it's a good skill to have and worth learning about it (if you learn on your own, you'll likely fry the fuse in your ohmmeter! ). I'm sure there are tons of youtube videos on that.

If you are getting 12V to the solenoid, then it could be that the internal ground connection inside the starter is dead (only way to tell is to take the starter apart; so let's not go there unless we really have to; happens rarely; solenoid could also have died).
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  #22  
Old September 11th, 2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonLand View Post
If you know what you are doing, you should check the ground from the starter to the battery and confirm it looks good. If you are not sure how to do this (with a test light or an ohmmeter), it's a good skill to have and worth learning about it (if you learn on your own, you'll likely fry the fuse in your ohmmeter! ). I'm sure there are tons of youtube videos on that.

If you are getting 12V to the solenoid, then it could be that the internal ground connection inside the starter is dead (only way to tell is to take the starter apart; so let's not go there unless we really have to; happens rarely; solenoid could also have died).
I don't know of a ground from the starter to the battery? -The only cable that runs from the battery to the starter is the red positive cable, I'm pretty new to all of this so I may be missing something.

It looks like the ground from the starter goes on to a part of the engine but I can't track the wire.

The engine block also has a ground to the frame- which I cleaned today.
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  #23  
Old September 11th, 2013, 07:16 PM
MonLand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
I don't know of a ground from the starter to the battery? -The only cable that runs from the battery to the starter is the red positive cable, I'm pretty new to all of this so I may be missing something.

It looks like the ground from the starter goes on to a part of the engine but I can't track the wire.

The engine block also has a ground to the frame- which I cleaned today.
Yes, this is correct, the starter gets its ground from the engine through being bolted to it (and then the engine to the strap to the chassis, etc). So, if you want to be 200% sure the ground is correct from the (body of the) starter to the battery, it's pretty straight forward. Personally, I think the ground is fine after your work on cleaning connections with sand paper and all. But if you want to put that one to rest once and for all, just check it!

On the starter, you should have two wires:
- small gauge wire (that's the one that comes from the ignition switch and connected to the solenoid 12V)
- large gauge wire (that's the 12V that makes the starter motor turn, not fused, always 12V hot, be careful not to ground it) => you can use a small piece of wire and put that 12V to where the small wire gauge connects (i.e. bypass ignition switch and safety switch if you have one [should only be for auto tranny]). If your engine starts, you know where the problem lies (ignition circuit).

nice diagram: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwDQ&dur=448
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  #24  
Old September 11th, 2013, 07:22 PM
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Robert Davis
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Make sure the ignition key is switched off.
Put the main transmission in neutral.
Put the transfer case in neutral.
Verify that it is in neutral by trying to push it with the parking brake off.
If you can push it a few feet without any resistance from the engine and transmission, then set the parking brake.
Go underneath with a wire with both ends stripped called the jump wire.
Note which 1/4" male spade that has a wire with a female connector on the end.
This wire was originally white with red and may still be if not covered with paint, or muck.
Touch one end of the jump wire to the lug on the solenoid where the battery cable is bolted and touch the other to the male spade connector on the solenoid that originally had the removed wire.
The starter should engage and spin the engine and over if it is working.
Make sure you do not have any clothing or body parts close to any part of the engine, belt, fan, pulley when you use the jump wire to engage the starter.
With the key off, the shutoff solenoid will be closed blocking fuel from the IP to the injectors, so the engine should not start.

If this causes the engine to spin than you have a starting circuit fault that can be fixed by tracing the wire you disconnected from the starter itself to the starter switch. I have fixed a few of these. The cause is generally burnt contacts in the switch if there isn't a starter relay. If there is a starter relay, then that is generally the problem, although the spade on the ignition switch can also break off (less common).

If the starter just clicks or does nothing, connect a jumper cable from the negative battery post to one of the bolts that fasten the starter to the engine. Using the jump wire try to engage the starter again.

If the starter just clicks or nothing happens, you need another starter.
You should see some small sparks when you connect the jump wire, like a flash.
If the starter engages and the engine spins you still have a bad ground.

At the end of this process, you will have diagnosed the starting fault.
There could be other issues and solutions like a broken wire, but at least you can narrow down the fault.

One other thing you can try is connecting a test light to that white with red wire that was hooked to the solenoid spade and see if it lights with the key switched to the starter position.

Report back what you find and be careful during this process.
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  #25  
Old September 11th, 2013, 07:51 PM
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I'm a little skeptical of doing that because it chugged forward a time or two when it was "in neutral" so I don't want to be under the rover when that happens
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  #26  
Old September 11th, 2013, 09:55 PM
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You can buy a remote starter switch @ sears to make it easier. You can connect it and stand next to the truck and press the button.
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  #27  
Old September 11th, 2013, 10:04 PM
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Your choice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
I'm a little skeptical of doing that because it chugged forward a time or two when it was "in neutral" so I don't want to be under the rover when that happens
If I were being silly, would ask you to explain how a vehicle with both the gearbox and transfer box in neutral can jump forward.

The advice given to you is the same advice I have performed numerous times myself without mishap...
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
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  #28  
Old September 12th, 2013, 12:47 AM
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I get where you're coming from but the transmission has been doing weird things like chugging forward with the clutch fully depressed
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  #29  
Old September 12th, 2013, 07:41 AM
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Very different scenarios...

Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
I get where you're coming from but the transmission has been doing weird things like chugging forward with the clutch fully depressed
Chugging forward with the clutch depressed, indicates the transmission and transfer case were in gear and you were relying on the clutch to keep the vehicle stationary (which was failing).

With both in neutral, the vehicle cannot lurch forward and the instructions I went to the trouble to type up for you have a step whereby you verify the vehicle is in neutral by pushing it a few feet.

It's your vehicle and your issue, so if you don't want to diagnose the problems, it's OK by me (I understand).

I am sure there are plenty of repair shops that will have no issues taking your money.
Many will make no attempt to diagnose, just put in a new starter as step 1 and go from there racking up a bill for you to pay. At this point no one knows what is wrong, so a new starter could fix your starting problem, but if the problem is not the starter, then you'll have 2 good starters and a starting circuit failure or a bad ground to overcome.

Diagnosing your own problems is your first step to becoming self reliant.

Good luck no matter which direction you decide to take.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #30  
Old September 12th, 2013, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Diagnosing your own problems is your first step to becoming self reliant.

Good luck no matter which direction you decide to take.

Not to be smart, but why ask for direction on here, and receive same, then argue with said free advise given from an old time member who has more R&D as well as wrench time on defenders than most anyone I know? Just saying, as it makes it frustrating for said member and ones with similar experience to continue to provide said free advice...
Don't like it, or don't agree with it, fine, don't use it. I am not saying discussion is a bad thing, but there is a difference between constructive discussion, and wasting someone's time and energy when they are attempting to help and save you time and money- not to mention trying to teach you to fish in lieu of giving you a fish...
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  #31  
Old September 12th, 2013, 08:21 AM
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Cut the person some slack they are obviously new to auto repair and feeling out of their element and a bit uncomfortable.

You can not blame the person for trying to be safe and work within their comfort zone.

Poster: you can always go buy the remote starter switch and that will keep you out from under the truck and standing beside it just make sure you do as rob suggested and make sure everything is in neutral before you start it.
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  #32  
Old September 12th, 2013, 09:28 AM
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With all the Defenders coming over under the 25 year rule we will have more and more people buying them and soon trying to fix them (as of course they are a Land Rover). I am sure most of these new Defender owners have grown up with cars that will run 5,000+ mile between oil changes and very little service needed. And have never had to worry about starting it up and driving a few hundred miles save for putting in gas. I know I was freaking out the first time something broke in my 90. But growing up, my old man always had a POS (auto project) around that needed work. With that backyard wrenching my dad taught me and some great posts from people on the board I've figured a bunch of things out (and also f'd things up too).

Dave I hear what you are saying but Robert gave a step by step process on how to try and diagnose and fix it. The OP is having a problem at step 1. No offense, but if he is having trouble with getting his truck completely into neutral I think he will certainly have a problem hooking up the remote starter. I think he should bring it to a shop at this point - which is totally fine and many of us have gone that route as well. I would just recommend that he read and re-read what has been said in this post about 10x and ask the mechanic at the garage what he did to fix it (if he can fix it).
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  #33  
Old September 12th, 2013, 10:00 AM
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I agree Don, maybe the person should take it in.

It was nice of Robert (and everyone else) to offer the advice that is what this site is all about helping each other. But just because the poster is nervous and hesitant to try it is no reason to give him a hard time. The necessary steps may be above his ability or comfort level and sometimes it is best to realize ones boundaries or step back and look at the situation and decide if it is something that you can take on or not.

Most of us on this site are pretty strong mechanically but that is not always going to be the case going forward especially with the flood of new owners we are going to see people from all kinds of backgrounds and comfort level some may need a little more coaching than others.
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  #34  
Old September 12th, 2013, 10:16 AM
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Byrnecc, where abouts in Maryland are you?

If you are close by to NOVA, then maybe one of the many members (me included) can stop by and help diagnose.
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  #35  
Old September 12th, 2013, 01:46 PM
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Thanks Don. No ill will intended Dave, or OP, and agree this will continue to develop as said influx of trucks increases. Point being, listen to what is being said- it is good logic, and will certainly help develop the confidence as new buyers enter the market. These trucks will have quirks, and likely when out of cell range if being used as intended, making diagnostics crucial.
I recently sold a new defender owner a truck, and he wanted to buy tools at our meeting place, but had minimal mechanical knowledge, and no shop manual as I had suggested prior to his 'trip'. Why get tools with no direction or idea where to begin using them??
Anyway, not trying to stir a pot, or derate anyone, just saying, lots of knowledge here, folks very willing to share same, and hope they don't get frustrated trying to help deaf ears- off soapbox...
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  #36  
Old September 12th, 2013, 02:12 PM
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We had a hard starting issue with our 110 recently (slow and dragging starter) which ended up being loose ground straps...Be sure to tighten them all...Ours also has one underneath near the battery box, that runs to the transmission, and this one was extremely loose and really made a difference when tightened up. Ours is,a gas V8, so I'm not sure if yours are the same...

The moving forward while starting sounds like your clutch isn't working and the trans isn't fully coming out of gear when going to N...sounds like there might be 2 problems there...

Good luck and don't get too frustrated...These issues can be a real pill sometimes! You may have to seek professional help on some of this
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  #37  
Old September 12th, 2013, 03:11 PM
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I'd like to suggest that maybe Connor isn't aware that there is a neutral in the transfer case as well as the transmission?
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  #38  
Old September 12th, 2013, 03:35 PM
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In regards to the situation with the truck:

I replaced a blown 15 a fuse in the cab, let the key sit in the on position for a few seconds, then tried starting and the engine began to turn over. It didn't catch but it was enough to tell the starter is okay- I think. Could the battery be completely dead? Maybe the alternator isn't sending charge back? I am going to try and buy a multi meter today (I'm at school and don't have one here)

In regards to the banter about me fixing the truck:

Firstly, the truck was in neutral, clutch depressed, and chugged forward (this was before the clutch had been bled)- I don't know why that happened- maybe it wasn't fully in neutral but thats where it appeared to be. That is enough to make me uncomfortable- yes you're right I don't have much experience with this- thats why I ask and come to the forum.

I did everything mentioned yesterday by the forum members aside from get under the car with a stripped wire connecting it to bolts I couldn't readily identify. I am considering taking it to a shop.

If I had someone to work with or spot me, I'd be all for it but having been electrocuted before it's not fun and its something I don't want to risk again much less be under a car that has clutch issues.

I appreciate the forum and I'm not doubting the advice, I'm just not confident in my ability to carry it out safely. I'm not great with cars, I have a decent understanding and am looking forward to working on the defender. I didn't buy some ex-MOD blindly I bought from Rugged Guide who say they restore it and it came over half dead. I knew I'd need to work on it and I like doing so but only within my comfort level, beyond that it goes to a shop.

------ Follow up post added September 12th, 2013 01:36 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Byrnecc, where abouts in Maryland are you?

If you are close by to NOVA, then maybe one of the many members (me included) can stop by and help diagnose.
Usually in Howard County, but currently in Oxford, Ohio. Thanks for the offer though! I appreciate it.
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  #39  
Old September 12th, 2013, 03:47 PM
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There are members on the board all across the country. I just am not familiar with those in ohio. I do know of a couple folks out that way. I'll have to look up their addresses and see how far from Oxford they are.

If you're taking it to a shop, you may still need the help from this forum to sort out truth from fiction in what the shop is telling you so keep us posted, and keep asking questions.
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  #40  
Old September 12th, 2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by slorocco View Post
There are members on the board all across the country. I just am not familiar with those in ohio. I do know of a couple folks out that way. I'll have to look up their addresses and see how far from Oxford they are.

If you're taking it to a shop, you may still need the help from this forum to sort out truth from fiction in what the shop is telling you so keep us posted, and keep asking questions.
Thanks but unfortunately I don't think anyone- or anything is close Oxford, its all farm out here. A local mechanic works on it with me sometimes but its hard to get a hold of him. He's all for hearing suggestions from the forum but I have to relay them so it takes a while sometimes. I'm hoping my manuals get here soon.
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