Need help re-starting a 2.5NA after a gas blow by incident - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 8th, 2016, 09:24 AM
Kitlisle
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Kit Lisle
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Need help re-starting a 2.5NA after a gas blow by incident

Thanks for your help on this. Lot of background for you on this 2.5NA with lt77....

1. New diesel tank installed. (Maybe something in the lines afterwards?)

2. Vehicle started up relatively easily after new tank and drove around on some errands without incident, but with slightly less power and slightly more smoke than normal (clear gray).

3. Next day, very hard to start, much more smoke (same color), much less power. Downshifting from 5th to 4th, I accelerated for a hill and then heard a low-pitch "Pooofff" followed by lots of dark smoke from under the hood and rolling into the cabin through gearbox. Immediately turned the ignition off, pulled over, inspected and found that the oil filler cap had blown off (path of least resistance?), presumably due to blow by gas.

4. It turns over, but will not catch. The problem is that it always sounds like I am draining the battery to the point where it is not turning over strongly enough, but the battery is fine. Here is what I have done:
A. Tested battery.
B. Replaced fuel filter
C. Replaced glow plugs

Here is what I have not done, but have been told might be a good idea:
A. Drain half of the oil, add that amount of diesel to lubricate/add viscosity ( to at least get it to start)
B. Change the fuel pump
C. Hook up an additional 12V battery
D. Donate to my friend with a boat to use as an additional anchor

Anything else? Other suggestions? Many thanks!
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  #2  
Old February 8th, 2016, 09:44 AM
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time to remove the head.

Don't even bother with A,B or C. When deep black smoke blows out your cylinder head, you've got serious issues.
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  #3  
Old February 8th, 2016, 10:12 AM
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Doug Crowther
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ALWAYS start with changing the fuel filter on a diesel. What you describe as reduced performance after a fuel tank change sounds like a classic case of clogged filter, so good move starting there.

Have you checked flow to your injectors ? If you pull breather cap can you see valve train moving when someone hits starter -ie ruled out a broken belt ? Any smoke coming out of tail pipe when you try to start it ?

Never drain half the oil and replace with diesel, where did you get this idea ?

You indicate the truck has new glows but are they getting juice ?
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  #4  
Old February 8th, 2016, 10:34 AM
Kitlisle
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Thanks to both of you. The glow plugs were getting juice before i replaced them, so i assume all the wiring is still fine. Yes, smoke is coming out of tail pipe when i try to start it. Bit dirtier, darker and smellier than it used to be! Have not specifically checked flow to injectors.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitlisle View Post
Thanks to both of you. The glow plugs were getting juice before i replaced them, so i assume all the wiring is still fine. Yes, smoke is coming out of tail pipe when i try to start it. Bit dirtier, darker and smellier than it used to be! Have not specifically checked flow to injectors.
Smoke is a good sign. It means it has compression and fuel is atomizing and is close to starting. A little gasoline in your air intake would probably fire it off. If it starts up pull the dipstick and see what kind of pressure you have out of the tube with it running.

If it is turning slowly your starter may be shot if as you say the battery has the CCA's. A tired starter wont get the job done since the key is to spin the engine fast enough for the compression to ignite the diesel.
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  #6  
Old February 8th, 2016, 11:50 AM
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I have given this advise over and over again, but it never gets old.

You almost certainly are getting air in the fuel.
The story is always the same: running fine and just <fill in the blank with some change to the fuel system> and now it won't start or is hard to start and runs poorly.

DO NOT start pulling the engine apart, changing the timing, pulling the injectors, until you try this:

Install a 12V fuel pump as close to the tank as possible to expose the air leak.
Optimal routing is: tank, sedimenter, 12V fuel pump, lift pump, filter, IP, return to tank
Do not use the small 12V pump prefilter as the sedimenter will protect the fuel pump from clogging.

The fuel routing on the 2.5 N/A is less than optimal.
The return line from the IP and the injector spill over line are routed back to the fuel filter and joined to a line that returns fuel back to the tank.
This routing recirculates trapped air and makes bleeding the fuel system very difficult.
With the above optimal routing, your fuel system is self bleeding by simply switching on the key.
You'll get adequate fuel delivery first time every time.

DO NOT dilute your crankcase oil with fuel.

If the blow by is extreme after this exercise, then you can look at other solutions.
My guess is your cap was loose to begin with and popped off, but could be wrong.
The issues you describe less the filler cap popping off could be solely related to fuel delivery.

Good luck.
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  #7  
Old February 9th, 2016, 07:40 AM
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If one wants to dilute oil in an engine (because of freezing temp (arctic temp that is)) drain some oil and replace with gas or kerosene. That's for a gas engine. I've never tried it with a diesel one.. The principle is to dilute the oil to help cranking speed. Once the engine fire up, the gas will evaporate. Just poor back some oil to fill the sump back up again. I can't see why it shouldn't work with a diesel engine but, don't dilute with kerosene..
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  #8  
Old February 9th, 2016, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDNRover View Post
If one wants to dilute oil in an engine (because of freezing temp (arctic temp that is)) drain some oil and replace with gas or kerosene. That's for a gas engine. I've never tried it with a diesel one.. The principle is to dilute the oil to help cranking speed. Once the engine fire up, the gas will evaporate. Just poor back some oil to fill the sump back up again. I can't see why it shouldn't work with a diesel engine but, don't dilute with kerosene..
This may work fine, but there are other risks when mixing fuel with crankcase oil that could be negated by other means.
Assuming synthetic oil is a good choice for the engine, it could provide the adequate lube qualities at colder temps while maintaining a thinner viscosity, then work just as well in a warmed engine (when compared to diluted fuel with gasoline + the 10% alcohol and all the additives that may not easily evaporate).
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  #9  
Old February 9th, 2016, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDNRover View Post
If one wants to dilute oil in an engine (because of freezing temp (arctic temp that is)) drain some oil and replace with gas or kerosene. That's for a gas engine. I've never tried it with a diesel one.. The principle is to dilute the oil to help cranking speed. Once the engine fire up, the gas will evaporate. Just poor back some oil to fill the sump back up again. I can't see why it shouldn't work with a diesel engine but, don't dilute with kerosene..
Holy crap. Please nobody follow that advice!
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  #10  
Old February 9th, 2016, 09:37 AM
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Holy crap. Please nobody follow that advice!

Oh, come on. It worked for the Luftwaffe!


Just having fun...seriously don't do this.
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  #11  
Old February 9th, 2016, 09:44 AM
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sorry, couldn't resist.. This is a joke
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  #12  
Old February 9th, 2016, 10:52 AM
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sorry, couldn't resist.. This is a joke
I prefer this method..
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  #13  
Old March 6th, 2017, 04:43 PM
Hache
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Did you ever figure this out?

My 2.5na wouldn't start this weekend - same symptoms as you - engine turning over but not catching.

I looked under the hood and found the oil filler cap was very loose and couldn't be tightened and oil all over the inside of the hood/bonnet.
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  #14  
Old March 6th, 2017, 04:51 PM
Kitlisle
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Sounds like the same thing -- I agree. I pulled the engine and we put in a 300 tdi. But someone came and was super excited about the old engine and was convinced he could get it started again. not sure whatever happened. good luck with it.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 04:54 PM
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That doesn't sound promising! Thanks though,
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  #16  
Old March 6th, 2017, 05:29 PM
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Pictures?

Is the 300Tdi running? Are you happy with the change? (Okay, dumb question. But I'm still going to ask.)

Mike & Carrie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitlisle View Post
Sounds like the same thing -- I agree. I pulled the engine and we put in a 300 tdi. But someone came and was super excited about the old engine and was convinced he could get it started again. not sure whatever happened. good luck with it.
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