NAS D110 AC/Heater Ducting - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 8th, 2006, 07:35 PM
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Dennis Yard
1993 NAS D-110 #55
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Question NAS D110 AC/Heater Ducting

Gentlemen,

My D-110 is back from surgery to change out the LT77 to a Range Rover ZF automatic. Now I can get back to other issues with the truck.

The AC unit blows cold air, but only through the windshield ducts or knee level outlets, but not through the face level louvers.

Apparently, there is a metal flapper valve behind the right side radio speaker that directs the air flow.
I have removed the speaker and can move the flapper by hand, but it wont stay in any one position nor will it move by way of the dashboard controls. I have the LR manual but it does not appear to cover the internal mechanism of the heater/AC controls.

Any hints folks on how to diagnose and remedy the control failure?

Cheers,

Dennis Yard
San Diego

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  #2  
Old July 10th, 2006, 12:36 AM
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Ryan
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Dennis,

My dash is partially apart so I can take a look at it tomorrow, and see how it works. IIRC, it has a pneumatic (i.e. vacuum) actuator that is controlled by your dash control. If it's not working, there may be several possibilites. Actuator bad, hose disconnected somewhere, dash control not adjusted properly, flapper door problem (I think it should be spring loaded in the closed position).

Also, since you're in the general vicinity, you might want to stop by and take a look at it. Tearing the dash apart is a major PITA so you might want to see mine before you tear in. PM me if you'd like to stop by.

Ryan
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  #3  
Old July 10th, 2006, 02:39 PM
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Dennis Yard
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Ryan,

Yes, I would be interested. It appeared that getting to stuff on the backside of the dash would be a large pain, full of chances to mess up unrelated stuff.

Will look at calendar and PM you with date and time.

Dennis
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  #4  
Old July 10th, 2006, 07:20 PM
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1993 D110
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Dennis/Ryan,

If it would not be too much trouble, please take and post some pics as I am wrestling with the same problem as Dennis and am just a little too far down the road to swing by. This would definately help me out. Additionally, Dennis, if you can post a follow-up on your solution I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Matt
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  #5  
Old July 10th, 2006, 11:04 PM
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Dennis Yard
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Matt,

Yes I would be happy to post the corrective action and any pictures, but can't promise exactly when. Since I just got it back from getting the automatic installed, I want to drive it for a little while before tearing it up again.

Cheers,
Dennis
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  #6  
Old July 11th, 2006, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rovers
Gentlemen,

My D-110 is back from surgery to change out the LT77 to a Range Rover ZF automatic. Now I can get back to other issues with the truck.

The AC unit blows cold air, but only through the windshield ducts or knee level outlets, but not through the face level louvers.

Apparently, there is a metal flapper valve behind the right side radio speaker that directs the air flow.
I have removed the speaker and can move the flapper by hand, but it wont stay in any one position nor will it move by way of the dashboard controls. I have the LR manual but it does not appear to cover the internal mechanism of the heater/AC controls.

Any hints folks on how to diagnose and remedy the control failure?
First thing to try beofre you gut the dash is to try and "switch" the air flow on a lesser fan setting. Turn the AC on and leave it on 1, then with the engine running at aboev idle try and switch the airflow to the "dash vents". When the little vac. motors get old and tired they can't pull against the higher fan speeds. Once it pulls it you can then increase the fan speed to get cold air (that is a relative thing in an NAS 110) out of the dash vents. It isn't a fix, but it might get you by.

The vac. motor for that one and the lines and switches are all a PITA to get to and before you toss out any olod parts keep in mind that a good number of the parts needed to get an NAS AC system abck to snuff are NLA so you will likely have to adapt some other part.

The most common thing we see with vac. problems on 110s is dry rotted and cracked lines to the vac. canister under the LH fender. Check thhose lines are clean and crack free before you gut your dash, beacuse if you don't have good vac. there, you won't get it at your dash parts.
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  #7  
Old July 11th, 2006, 12:22 PM
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Richard Kurk
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I am also struggling with a related problem on my 110 and would appreciate any photos, tips or solutions that you may find. My 110's problem is that you cannot close the air off from outside (using the air recirculation lever), it is permanently fixed on letting in fresh air regardless of the lever position. On a positive note if it has to be broken then this is the position to break in, but it is frustrating on very cold days and very hot days. I have taken the dash apart and cannot find any obvious problems like broken vac lines etc. and have visually inspected the lines in the engine compartment. Like you my next step is to tear deeper into the probelm specifically into AC/Heater box and get to the 'flapper' and motor that controls fresh air/recircluated air.

Additional point of frustration, as you mentioned, the shop manual has NO description, pictures, etc of the operation of the air ducts/recirculation/control/operating mechanism. I have had to rely on schematics from the parts manual for a few items like the arrangement of the vac. lines.

Thanks,

Rich K.
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  #8  
Old July 15th, 2006, 05:12 PM
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Dennis Yard
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Mike and All,

You have certainly sent me on the right path to sorting out the AC problems. I have begun by looking at the vacuum resoviour (the black softball sized globe with two connections for vacuum hoses). Turns out that there is only one hose attached - the other nipple (labeled "VAC") is not connected to anything. There is no dangling hose nearby or such.

Since the truck is running OK, I would have to assume that the manifold port that is supposed to be connected to the cannister has been plugged. I have looked at the vacuum schematic label under the bonnet and in the repair book but that was no help in trying to figure out where to connect a vacuum line.

The other existing vacuum line clearly goes through the bulkhead from the cannister's unlabeled nipple.

Once I get the cannister hooked up with some vacuum, then I can worry about the internal switching parts.

Any help on were the vacuum "supply" line is supposed to connect to the manifold or ?

Cheers,

Dennis Yard
San Diego
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  #9  
Old July 16th, 2006, 08:28 PM
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Richard Kurk
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I have taken three pictures of my 110's vac line setup which may be of some help in tracing the connections. My 110's heater-AC works with the exception that the air recirculation/fresh air mechanism is broken on 'fresh air' only.

Photo DSC_0016 is the reservoir. The blue line in the photo indicates the hose from the reservoir to the 't' in the line from the brake booster to the manifold (vac source). The red line indicates the line from the reservoir to the heater-AC-controls (see next photos).

Photo DSC_0015 is the hose running from the reservoir to the heater-AC-controls (it is very hard to see in the photo as it is partially hidden under the upper edge of the firewall). Follow the red line right to left in the photo. See next photo.

Photo DSC_0014 is the hose running along the firewall and then connecting to the colored small vac lines that are part of the heater-AC-controls in the dash and as part of the heater-AC components in the engine bay. The yellow line in the photo marks the black rubber hose connection to the smaller vac line 'system'.

These are not the best pictures but maybe they will be a start. They are very small when sized down for this forum, if you need larger/higher res versions let me know and I can email them. Finally, If you need more specific pictures let me know.

Rich K.

Follow-up Post:

I just realized that the pictures from my posted reply are thumbnails not attachments so the file names provided aren't shown. Thumbnails from left to right are > DSC_0016, DSC_0014, and DSC_0015. Sorry for the confusion.

Rich K.
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  #10  
Old July 17th, 2006, 02:48 PM
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Dennis Yard
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Richard,

Awesome pics, exactly what I needed. Pic 1 (0016) covers the main problem - no hose from the "VAC" connection on the reservoir to anything.

I now see that I need to put a hose to some kind of "T" on that brake booster line to get a vacuum to drive the dashboard components. I'll also see how my other line through the bulkhead is routed.

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode!

Thank you.

Dennis Yard
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  #11  
Old July 17th, 2006, 11:35 PM
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Dennis Yard
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Gentlemen,

Checked out the engine bay tonight and (now that I knew what to look for) found the brake vacuum line "T". The stem portion for the AC vacuum line was plugged with a bolt!

I will go find proper vacuum line to tie the cannister and the brake vacuum line together.

Of course, it could very well be that it was plugged for a reason: the bulkhead side is not connected to valving or similar that yields an open line screwing up the intake manifold vacuum.

So, we'll see what happens next.

Stay tuned.....

Dennis Yard

Land Rovers; Collect the Whole Set
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2004 Disco II
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  #12  
Old July 23rd, 2006, 09:26 PM
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Dennis Yard
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Mike and other Gentlemen of the Defender League.

The small fact that the AC controls in the cabin did not work was attributable to the tiny detail that there was NO vacuum hose from the control's vacuum canister to the brake vacuum line.

Once I put in the 12" hose, the actuation of the flapper control works just fine. Now I have plenty of cool air coming out of the fascia vents when the selector lever is in that position.

Hopefully that is all there is and I'll see no problem with the engine due to the connection. It seems to run just fine in the driveway, we'll try it on the way to work tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and offers. I am seriously glad I don't have to pull apart the dashboard.

Dennis Yard
San Diego
P.S. I expect to bring the truck to San Diego British Car Day show on October 1st. Hope some of you can join us.
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  #13  
Old July 24th, 2006, 11:27 AM
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Glad I could stop you from gutting your dash.
I see that in a lot of cases. Even had some people bring their 110s here after they gutted the dash and brought it to me in pieces... and then I plugged in the vac. lin and told them to go put it back together.

Always start simple and at the source... if that doesn't work then head towards the complex...
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  #14  
Old May 31st, 2009, 09:38 AM
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Chuck McKibbin
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You guys are great! I bought a NAS 100 and the a/c blows cold, but no controlling the duct work. Well, I've got to drive for a while first. Now it's time to fix it. And look what I found. What a resource. Cocktails on me. Thank You!
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