NAS 110 Stalls Climbing Hills - Page 2 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old October 24th, 2007, 05:37 PM
R. Kurk
Status: Offline
Richard Kurk
1993 110 NAS #489
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Santa Cruz CA.
Posts: 77
I think I have tried this a while ago with no effect. But a good idea. I will test it tomorrow morning when the 110 is cold again (I drove to work today and it is very warm here in Santa Cruz, and dangerously warm to the south) and see what happens.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #22  
Old October 24th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Jon_Winningham's Avatar
Jon_Winningham
Status: Offline
Sterling M Archer
1995 AA Yellow NAS D90 #2986
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 728
Registry
Rich, once your D110 finally starts does it idle fine? Mine idles a little fine, but when I back out of the garage and push the clutch in to stop and go into 1st it almost dies. This only happens when it is the first start up of the day.

I am going to look at the following:

reseal stepper motor and housing
try the start up trick per above
look at replacing the speed sensor VSS transducer
clean gas tank and pump
o2 sensors
fuel injectors
an old preist and a young preist (exorcist)
all above in the order of least $$ to most $$

Any other ideas???
__________________
1995 NAS Defender 90 AA Yellow #2986: Current
2009 Range Rover Supercharged Black/Black: Current

1993 NAS Defender 110 #375/500: Sold
1995 NAS Defender 90 Soft Top Beluga Black #2556: Sold
1991 Range Rover Hunter Green: Sold
1997 NAS Defender 90 Station Wagon Portofino Red #128: Sold
1993 NAS Defender 110 Beluga Black #215/500: sold
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old October 24th, 2007, 06:00 PM
R. Kurk
Status: Offline
Richard Kurk
1993 110 NAS #489
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Santa Cruz CA.
Posts: 77
Jon, our problems are very similar although not exact.

Once the engine starts it finds the proper and stable idle speed 95% of the time. Once in a while it seems to struggle a bit to find a smooth idle spot for the first minute. I have replaced most of the components you listed except using the exorcist!. What is both interesting and a little frustrating is that as I replaced one component at at time (never more than one at a time) there would a small improvement in how the engine ran. It amazed me that a lot of the components (list below) were faulty but none caused the engine to not run (fuel pump being the exception), or run so poorly that it was difficult to drive. As I replaced them the engine got better and better. From memory here is what I replaced.

Stepper motor
Speed sensor
engine coolant temp sensor (very noticeable change. ran much better between starting cold until the engine warmed up).
fuel regulator (I think this is the correct name/description ... it is at the fuel rail)
fuel temp sensor (this had no effect on the operation)
fuel filter
fuel pump (solved stalling up hills)
Dist cap, rotor, plugs, and new wires.
fuel pump relay
New ignition amplifier as part of the kit to move it off the distributor (and the heat).

I think I have forgotten a couple of items as most of this was done a year ago. I may breakdown and get the O2 senors ($$$) and see what happens. If I do I will post a note with the results. Let me know what happens with your work ... especially if the exorcism works!

Rich K.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24  
Old October 24th, 2007, 08:39 PM
Jon_Winningham's Avatar
Jon_Winningham
Status: Offline
Sterling M Archer
1995 AA Yellow NAS D90 #2986
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 728
Registry
Rich, have you ever checked if your oil pan is free of any sludge?
My first D110 had some sludge in the oil pan, and I dropped it and cleaned it. It was slow to start before, but after cleaning the pan it fired right up then on...
I may do the same to this D110, although when I changed the oil last the pan seemed to only have a slight film of sludge at the bottom.
__________________
1995 NAS Defender 90 AA Yellow #2986: Current
2009 Range Rover Supercharged Black/Black: Current

1993 NAS Defender 110 #375/500: Sold
1995 NAS Defender 90 Soft Top Beluga Black #2556: Sold
1991 Range Rover Hunter Green: Sold
1997 NAS Defender 90 Station Wagon Portofino Red #128: Sold
1993 NAS Defender 110 Beluga Black #215/500: sold
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old October 24th, 2007, 11:02 PM
R. Kurk
Status: Offline
Richard Kurk
1993 110 NAS #489
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Santa Cruz CA.
Posts: 77
Jon, I have not personally, but the oil pan did come off about six months ago to replace the rear main seal (leak turned out to be the plug in the block at the back of the camshaft not the main seal) and the work was done at local private LR shop here in town. I will check with them and ask what they saw if anything. They have a surprising memory regarding what they have done and seen on my 110 ... it's the only one they see so it does not get confused with all the LR's they work on.

I am going to go ahead and replace the O2 sensors just to see if this cures the cold start issue and if not it is one more item to check off the preventative maintenance list.

I am also going to try the suggestion by Ron Brown and turn on the ignition and wait before proceeding to crank the starter. If may help with the narrow the problem source down.

Thanks.

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old October 25th, 2007, 10:23 AM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Kurk
I am also going to try the suggestion by Ron Brown and turn on the ignition and wait before proceeding to crank the starter. If may help with the narrow the problem source down.
Once it is started, turn the engine off right away and try to restart it again (wait 10 seconds?). The engine will not be warm, so from the ECU point of view, it will still act as a "cold engine" and that should rule out any sensor, right? What do you guys think?
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old October 25th, 2007, 03:06 PM
Jon_Winningham's Avatar
Jon_Winningham
Status: Offline
Sterling M Archer
1995 AA Yellow NAS D90 #2986
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 728
Registry
Per D-90 Source FAQ:

Troy Wilson gave a nice dissertation on their function.

You need a M-12 sensor, that is, metric 12 by 1.25 threaded. The Lucas 3LS, heated titania sensors are made by NTK Technical Ceramics, apparently the *only* manufacturer in the world now doing the 12X1.25 size. These are the *three wire* sensors used on OBD-I and previous vhicles. Try any of the following Nissan parts: 226A0-40U60, 22690-88G01, 22690-61A00 or 22960-)M210. All are made by NTK and differ only in the terminal plug. Oh yeah, they differ in price: the Nissan one is around $60.

Now if you have the OBD-II system, you need a *four wire* sensor. My crossover number is Nissan 22690-85E10, though I haven't tried it yet. The best price I've found is around $77.

The curious thing is *this is the exact same part* save for the terminal plug. Go figure why Rover charges almost three times the price...and that is from after market retailers...direct through the dealer network is even more obscene.

I found this at Napa for $66.49 (you will need 2), but you will have to splice the conection.
http://napaonline.com/MasterPages/NO...=Oxygen+Sensor

If the wires are different in color then try this per NTK:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/...t_11-16-04.pdf
__________________
1995 NAS Defender 90 AA Yellow #2986: Current
2009 Range Rover Supercharged Black/Black: Current

1993 NAS Defender 110 #375/500: Sold
1995 NAS Defender 90 Soft Top Beluga Black #2556: Sold
1991 Range Rover Hunter Green: Sold
1997 NAS Defender 90 Station Wagon Portofino Red #128: Sold
1993 NAS Defender 110 Beluga Black #215/500: sold
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old October 25th, 2007, 03:25 PM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Winningham
Per D-90 Source FAQ:

Troy Wilson gave a nice dissertation on their function.
Something else I read about the O2 sensors that might be of interest (or not) [Probably also somewhere on the Source]:
* on the 3-wire sensors:
- one wire is used for the signal from the sensor
- one wire is used for the sensor heater
- one wire is ground for both the sensor and the sensor heater

* Because in some case (Which ones???) it was found that the common ground leaded the ECU to not be able to detect that the sensor was not working correctly (sensor heater? Sensor itself?), the design of the O2 sensors (also called lambda sensors) was improved to use 4 wires (OBD-2):
- one wire is used for the signal from the sensor
- one wire is ground for the sensor
- one wire is used for the sensor heater
- one wire is ground for the sensor heater

Somebody also had a comment that in theory (the datasheet of the sensors would probably needs to be compared to make sure the sensor output looks similar enough, but they might all look the same?), it is possible to fit pretty much any O2 sensor as long as a different fitting (nut) was welded on the exhaust in place of the existing one. That might even bring the cost down (but then.... How often do you need to replace your sensors? Once every 10 years?).
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old October 28th, 2007, 09:12 PM
R. Kurk
Status: Offline
Richard Kurk
1993 110 NAS #489
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Santa Cruz CA.
Posts: 77
Update on various suggested fixes.

1) I replaced the O2 sensors, but unfortunately no change to the slow-to-start problem
2) I tried the suggestion to turn the starter until the engine just starts to turnover and then shut off and try to restart. The result is that the motor starts right up on the second try.
3) I tried turning the ignition switch to the 'run' position and waiting to try and start. I tried this by waiting for 30 seconds and then followed the next day by re-trying at 60 seconds. In both cases the engine still cranked about 15+ seconds before firing and then starting.

So, for now I will pause on working on this problem. Next step might be to go back and replace the coolant temp sensor (replaced a year ago) again. Just a wild guess that the sensor isn't telling the computer that the engine is full cold, but his is clearly just a reaching guess.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Rich K.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old October 28th, 2007, 09:15 PM
Stmpede's Avatar
Stmpede
Status: Offline
Andrew Najarian
'93 NAS D110 #43
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,459
I would definitely take a look at those injectors. You can probably find them inexpensively here.
__________________
"I have taken more good from alcohol than alcohol has taken from me." - Winston Churchill
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old October 29th, 2007, 10:58 AM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Kurk
2) I tried the suggestion to turn the starter until the engine just starts to turnover and then shut off and try to restart. The result is that the motor starts right up on the second try.
Then I don't think this is a sensor issue. Nothing changed in your engine except for:
- fuel system (pressure, moisture,.... is ok)
- air intake system (moisture is gone if any as air was displaced)
- cylinders (moisture is gone if any as air was displaced)
Seems like a lot of people are thinking fuel injectors. Take those out and take them to a place where they can test them (and clean them). I would think testing them is fairly cheap (only ever saw this done on older diesel injectors and this was very straight forward, I'd assume the same here).

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Kurk
3) I tried turning the ignition switch to the 'run' position and waiting to try and start. I tried this by waiting for 30 seconds and then followed the next day by re-trying at 60 seconds. In both cases the engine still cranked about 15+ seconds before firing and then starting.
Actually the test I was thinking about was:
- Step 1: turn the key to the "run" position.
- Step 2: hear the fuel pump relay kick in
- Step 3: listen to the fuel pump running
- Step 4: wait for the fuel pump to stop/hear the relay drop (should be what.... 5-10 seconds?)
- Step 5: turn the key to the "off" position
- Step 6: repeat step 1 through 5 ten times in a row.
- Step 7: try to start the engine.
If this is a "fuel pressure not building up properly under normal conditions" then on Step 7, your engine should start right up.
If you have a leaky injector, I would assume your engine will have a harder time starting as a lot of fuel went into that (those?) cylinder(s). It should turn over longer than those 15 seconds. Can anyone deny/confirm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Kurk
So, for now I will pause on working on this problem.
If this is a leaky injector, then keep in mind that putting fuel in the cylinder will clean it real good and remove any lubricating oil in it..... Probably not something you want to leave alone for too long or this will prematuraly damage the cylinder.
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old October 29th, 2007, 02:19 PM
WI-ROTTIE's Avatar
WI-ROTTIE
Status: Offline
Pete Bethke
'95 D-90 SW #305
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oconomowoc, Wisconsin
Posts: 56
In reading this I starting thinking that my '95 w/3.9 cranks for awhile before starting but it does it both hot and cold. Can anyone comment on what is normal? I would say that it cranks for 3-5 seconds before starting and runs well otherwise. I always thought it took a long time considering it's fuel injected. The truck only has 39k and has new fuel filter, plugs, wire, cap & rotor. Spark plugs were replaced about 8k miles ago.

I think someone commented in this post that theirs starts in a second or less.

Comments/thoughts appreciated.
__________________
'95 SW #305
'05 LR3 HSE
'07 RR
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old October 30th, 2007, 03:40 PM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by WI-ROTTIE
In reading this I starting thinking that my '95 w/3.9 cranks for awhile before starting but it does it both hot and cold. Can anyone comment on what is normal? I would say that it cranks for 3-5 seconds before starting and runs well otherwise. I always thought it took a long time considering it's fuel injected. The truck only has 39k and has new fuel filter, plugs, wire, cap & rotor. Spark plugs were replaced about 8k miles ago.

I think someone commented in this post that theirs starts in a second or less.

Comments/thoughts appreciated.
Mine takes probably 2-3 seconds to start. The Disco (4.0L) takes half of that (always has, even with bad spark plug wires). Both have roughly the same mileage (~80K).
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
110, nas, nas 110

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best way across the US Mike Hippert Defender Technical Discussions 173 April 29th, 2010 04:56 PM
NAS 110 Rear Bumper Reefminis Wanted 3 October 2nd, 2006 04:54 PM
WTS: NAS 110 AC/heater box headdamage For Sale - Parts 1 October 24th, 2005 08:43 PM
OD of NAS 110 cage needed dnewman9 Defender Technical Discussions 1 July 4th, 2004 01:24 AM
Black NAS 110 Chris Cox Misc. Chit-Chat 21 November 20th, 2003 01:15 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 AM.


Copyright