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  #41  
Old July 25th, 2012, 04:22 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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I will be the first one to defer to Rovertek. When it comes to electrical stuff on trucks, I am out/out.

Now as far as the other items I listed, I am not sure what helped my issue but I am glad I jumped on it all. It is always nice to know that things are cleaner than before you started.
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  #42  
Old July 25th, 2012, 04:29 PM
Naplm00
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Matthew
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You CAN just replace the the voltage regulator, but you might as well just put in a new or reman entire unit. It is almost the same amount of work and they you get free spare parts
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  #43  
Old July 25th, 2012, 10:30 PM
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Jason England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graves14
I seem to have a similar issue recently. My 97 has died on me a few times now. Best I can tell, when I come to a stop the idle keeps dropping then the engine quits. I haven't checked anything beyond a new battery, chassis ground seems reasonable, alternator is pushing about 13.4V at idle.

This happened once with a bad battery, and I couldn't get enough juice to restart and had to get a tow (what an embarrassment). Now with the new battery, I seem to be able to restart it and continue. But its still making me not want to drive it out of fear of another stranded situation, so I need to root cause to be satisfied.

The part that I'm confused about is that the interior lights start to come on (flickering a bit) right around the time the engine is struggling. Why would that happen? I'm not able to reproduce the slow death issue easily. It seems to know when I'm not within pushing distance to my house in order for it to happen!

Any suggestions appreciated.
Interior lights coming on means a bad ground of some description. The VSS signals to the ECU the vehicle is stopped and that it should take over idle control. If it's not going controlling idle then the ECU doesn't think you've stopped.
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  #44  
Old July 29th, 2012, 06:25 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Well..... I am back to stalling. Bummer. I did check the connection on the other side of the VSS and it was gooked up with some stuff. I cleaned it up, started the truck and I am not sure I noticed much difference. I am not quite sure how the get the VSS out. That sucker is wedged in there good.

This is what it started doing. I sometimes start the truck and it will rev to "wake up" the engine, but will not drop down to normal idle like it should but will sit around 1100 rpm's. I can immediately turn it off and it will idle right. The sometimes when I start it it will rev, and drop back to around 500 or so but will hack and sputter for a sec before settling down. Then sometimes I start it and it will immediately die. When it sputters is when it usually will struggle to stay running at lights.

It just makes logic since that this might be a VSS issue at this point with all the other stuff going on.
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  #45  
Old July 29th, 2012, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickM View Post
Well..... I am back to stalling. Bummer. I did check the connection on the other side of the VSS and it was gooked up with some stuff. I cleaned it up, started the truck and I am not sure I noticed much difference. I am not quite sure how the get the VSS out. That sucker is wedged in there good.

This is what it started doing. I sometimes start the truck and it will rev to "wake up" the engine, but will not drop down to normal idle like it should but will sit around 1100 rpm's. I can immediately turn it off and it will idle right. The sometimes when I start it it will rev, and drop back to around 500 or so but will hack and sputter for a sec before settling down. Then sometimes I start it and it will immediately die. When it sputters is when it usually will struggle to stay running at lights.

It just makes logic since that this might be a VSS issue at this point with all the other stuff going on.
Stop revving up your engine at startup ... it shouldn't be necessary.

Doesn't sound like the VSS to me ... that will only tell the ECU that the vehicle is slowing down and stopped ... instructing the ECU to take over idle control.

Idle air is controlled by the idle control stepper motor ... if it's sticky then it won't necessarily throw a code but it sure as hell mess up your idling. The stepper motor is signalled to reset when you turn off in preparation for the next startup .. the fact that turning off and back on can make this behave normally makes me suspect the stepper motor is faulty.

$40 from any autozone
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  #46  
Old July 29th, 2012, 09:36 PM
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I am not touching the throttle btw on startup. I have always learned with a EFI truck you don't touch the trottle on startup. I will get a new stepper ordered, and in the mean time I may try and install the old one that was apparently not the problem I fixed a while ago anyway. We shall see.
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  #47  
Old July 30th, 2012, 08:28 AM
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Swap in the old one and test that before buying a new one ... It takes only a minute!
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #48  
Old July 30th, 2012, 10:06 AM
RickM
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Alright Leastonce. I pulled out the stepper that had been pulled for a separate issue (that turned out to be the coil pack) and drove it in today. It was dying on me again and I did look closer at the speedo. My cable become unattached at one point so my speedo was never totally reliable. That being said I did notice how it bounces when I am stopped and at idle. I think my only next step is to try the VSS and see what I can do about it.

Thanks BTW for helping me dig around on this. I really appreciate all the input.
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  #49  
Old July 30th, 2012, 11:42 AM
RickM
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I was getting ready to order a new VSS and then stumbled across this post. I might try this to see if I can get this going first.

RickM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Hmm.. It's been about 7 or 8 years since I had to play with one of these and my memory is not the best but my recollection of the set up is as follows (jump in somebody if I get this arse about face):

The IACV has a stepper motor that operates the plunger via a worm type drive. Because it's a worm drive you shouldn't be able to move it fully unless you apply power to it. You may be able to push it in against the spring pressure but you shouldn't be able to pull it out. If it's already fully in then you wouldn't be able to move it. I don't remember any adjustment capability on either the stock units or the AC151 to adjust it's range on the IACV itself.

When you plug it and start the engine it attempts to control the idle by moving in or out to open or restrict a bypass airway in the throttle body. To do this the ECU needs to know where the plunger is in relation to it's range of travel. On different engines the plungers min and max positions will be different. Also on different engines the amount of travel (number of steps) needed to raise or lower the idle due to extra or loss of load will vary.

So in order to work properly the ECU 'learns' the # of steps over time needed to adjust for changes like the AC coming on or shifting in and out of park and so on. It stores and constantly updates these in it's adaptive memory.

When you remove the IACV to clean it or replace it then the ECU may lose 'touch' with the position of the plunger or if you replace it may not know it to begin with. It will then try to sync with the IACV by moving the plunger in and out to sense it's range by monitoring the effect on the engine speed. If it's successful then you won't know the difference, if it's not then you will get the strange idle issue where the engine may idle at up to 2 or 3k or so low it stalls.

In this situation the only way to fix it (if the IACV is working properly) is to run a procedure using Testbook called 'setting the base idle'. You can do it with 3rd party systems as well but you do it manually. Setting the base idle puts the ECU into learn mode and clears the adaptive memory. It sets up the min and max positions and checks the range of travel. It also requires you to check and or make adjustments using a bypass screw on the throttle body to set up the base idle. The ECU is then 'in sync' with the IACV and everything should work normally. Gradually the ECU then 'learns' over time the new movements of the IACV needed to maintain the correct idle speed under different load conditions.

This procedure is probably the 'adjustment' the instructions are referring to.

Does that help?

Thanks

Ian
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  #50  
Old July 30th, 2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickM View Post
I was getting ready to order a new VSS and then stumbled across this post. I might try this to see if I can get this going first.

RickM

When you ignition off the ECU forces the Stepper to fully open or closed - don't recall which by sending 200+ pulses ... so not matter what position it's in it will be fully open or closed the next time the engine starts.

Its not true you need to set the base idle for the engine to learn where the stepper is.

Trying to set the base idle when you don't have a consistent idle is a recipie for disaster.

The best think you could do is setup a Rover Gauge and get an idea what is really going on ... I have an ECUMate which I bought from the UK which is a self contained equivalent.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #51  
Old July 31st, 2012, 12:09 AM
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Ian Gregory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickM View Post
I was getting ready to order a new VSS and then stumbled across this post. I might try this to see if I can get this going first.

RickM
Sorry for the confusion guys but that post was written for a 97 GEMS truck, you guys are talking about a 95 14CUX truck I think?

Base Idle setting and stepper set ups on the 2 trucks are totally different and pretty much everything in that post other than the basic operation and so on of the IACV is not applicable to the 94/95 set up being discussed here. The 14CUX does not have the same long term adaptive values problem as the GEMS trucks. A battery disconnect can solve it on a 14CUX but not on a GEMS.

Ian
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  #52  
Old July 31st, 2012, 11:11 AM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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So here is where I am at today. Ipgregory. Before you could convince me of the difference leastonce did.

We own and manage and apartment complex and our porter is a great guy and old mechanic. He is the kind of guy who knows a lot of stuff, but is not versed in rovers at all. I have to help him out a lot as we learn together. He asked a funny questions concerning if I had disconnected the negative battery term when installing the Stepper. To that I gave a hearty no! Well I disconnected the battery let it sit for a minute or so and reconnected it. I have since started, turned off, and restarted the truck a bunch of times. Now my idle is a touch high but it is at least consistent. It is idling around 700 to 800 now. We shall see.
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  #53  
Old August 1st, 2012, 09:43 AM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Update. So the truck is running better in some regards. Still idling a bit high, but it is way more consistent. It usually takes a few days for the drop in idle to occur however so I will keep an eye on it.

Ironic that I replaced the stepper to care for an old issue. Turns out the stepper was not the issue on that one and the new stepper was faulty creating a new issue.
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  #54  
Old August 1st, 2012, 05:21 PM
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basically you did a force reset of the ECU ... happy it's working better!
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #55  
Old August 2nd, 2012, 11:05 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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Leastonce. I do appreciate all your input on this. I am not quite ready to say my truck is totally good but I think it is much much much better. Funny thing. Tonight I was listening to something on the radio that had a low bass. It sounded like my idle was about to dive again and I started to freek out trying to check the tach. Anyway, I think we are good to go.
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  #56  
Old August 2nd, 2012, 11:52 PM
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I'm constantly watching my temp gauge ... Always expecting some nasty event .... If you have some IT special powers do the rover gauge thing . You really get some great insight to the workings of your ECU!
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #57  
Old August 10th, 2012, 01:55 PM
RickM
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Rick Mabus
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I thought it might be worth it to give everyone a bit of an update as to what it appears was the issue with my rig.

So when I put the old/cleaned stepper in and removed the negative battery lead for a few minutes the truck has run fine ever since. This is going on about 2 weeks. Bottom line is I am getting the feeling that by replacing my stepper without letting it reset with the ECU then I screwed up. Newb mistake I guess.
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  #58  
Old August 10th, 2012, 02:05 PM
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I feel your pain... I'm constantly second guessing my work to make sure I'm not screwing something else up.
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  #59  
Old August 11th, 2012, 08:55 AM
graves14
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Tyler Graves
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My story ends in about the same way as RickM. I replaced the stepper motor with one off eBay for $18. Glad I checked here, wouldn't have thought to reset the ecu via a battery disconnect.

So far so good, no stalling and the idle hunting was only temporary following the initial few starts (ecu learning I guess).

There was lots of crud on the old stepper and all inside the hole the stepper plunger goes. Cleaned all that.

-Tyler
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  #60  
Old August 11th, 2012, 09:53 AM
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I guess this is why the workshop manual starts every procedure by disconnect the battery!
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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