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  #21  
Old July 16th, 2012, 11:19 AM
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Leif
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is it possible that the idle was set higher at some point to compensate for the vacuum line and filter problems? Now that those issues are remedied its idling too high?
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  #22  
Old July 16th, 2012, 11:54 AM
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Jason England
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The fact that the idle fluctuates is a clue ... are you sure you haven't got a sticky throttle cable?

I'd setup a roverguage and read directly from the computer ...this will tell you :

1. position of stepper motor ... it might be new ... but is it working?
2. Throttle position - if the engine sees high throttle values it will apply gas - it may also have a faulty portion of the sweep giving a wrong value at a certain point.
3. Coolant temp sensor - this is a major input to the fuel mixture ... if it's wrong then fueling will be f'd up.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #23  
Old July 17th, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Rick Mabus
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Just as a heads up. I now have a truck that wont die but it is idling high. When I start it it will idle high and 90% of the time it drops back down quickly. If it does not drop quickly I will immediately kill it and refire and it idles around 1K. This is what I have done. as far as air intake.

1. Newish stepper
2. Cleaned intake manifold hose up some.
3. Shot Carb cleaner (tons of it) into the intake manifold, and into every opening around the intake.
4. Cleaned and re-oiled the K&N filter.
5. Replaced the hose from the intake to the little thingy on the dizzy.
6. Cleaned the flame trap big time.

I think I might have had a few issues going on, but whatever was causing my truck to die might have been address, but you never know.
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  #24  
Old July 17th, 2012, 12:22 PM
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Jason England
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when the truck is turned off the ecu sets up the stepper for the next start by sending it pulse to retract ... i wonder if your stepper is not retracting properly or if it is ... it fails to respond to requests to start closing to reduce the idle speed. The idle speed basically being controlled by fuel flow and the amount of air allowed passed the stepper.

Things you need to check ..

The coolant sensor - this influences the amount of fuel the ecu will instruct ... if it thinks it's cold it will send more! You can test this with a multimeter.

Throttle position and sensor read out ... does the throttle fully close? and does the TPS value map properly to it being closed?

setup a roverguage or do it by hand http://www.scribd.com/doc/68992220/14cux-Fuel-Injection

I wouldn't manually adjust the idle settings ... you are likely to just be masking an issue.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #25  
Old July 17th, 2012, 01:26 PM
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Russell
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Give this a try: http://youtu.be/4G6jvu9PHZA
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  #26  
Old July 17th, 2012, 04:26 PM
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chris
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ill agree with the vss to a point but i might have a educated suggestion for ya .... first thing is first start with the basics .,..power ground make sure all your connections are clean grounds are most important disassemble and clean good .....check your plugs cap and rotor , check and clean all carbon from evap(vac ) pipes , removed idle air control mounting pad there was a tsb modification to the air inlet on there . clean iac motor tip , clean throttle body blade . check vacuum advance to see if it holds vac . set timing to recommended set base idle adjustment should idle around 750 if there minimal or no adjustment then you have a vacuum leak more likely from your intake manifold . there is another adjustment to the throttle blade but that was really for technicians that were well versed in its affects so donít mess with it .....after all is said and done and you still have a problem I would recommend you take a look at the alternator if its a rebuilt unit then i could guarantee its faulty at low speed its not producing the correct amps to fire the injectors on one bank of the engine so it just stalls !

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  #27  
Old July 17th, 2012, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertek
ill agree with the vss to a point but i might have a educated suggestion for ya .... first thing is first start with the basics .,..power ground make sure all your connections are clean grounds are most important disassemble and clean good .....check your plugs cap and rotor , check and clean all carbon from evap(vac ) pipes , removed idle air control mounting pad there was a tsb modification to the air inlet on there . clean iac motor tip , clean throttle body blade . check vacuum advance to see if it holds vac . set timing to recommended set base idle adjustment should idle around 750 if there minimal or no adjustment then you have a vacuum leak more likely from your intake manifold . there is another adjustment to the throttle blade but that was really for technicians that were well versed in its affects so don’t mess with it .....after all is said and done and you still have a problem I would recommend you take a look at the alternator if its a rebuilt unit then i could guarantee its faulty at low speed its not producing the correct amps to fire the injectors on one bank of the engine so it just stalls !

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Don't touch the base idle until you know what's wrong ... and 750 is not the correct idle for these trucks.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #28  
Old July 17th, 2012, 08:30 PM
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chris
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I stand corrected use to repairing ranges / discos ,,,, to be correct

6 deg tdc ....idle pipe blocked off base idle should be 525+/- 25

what do i know being a land rover master technician
too much information running around in my head
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  #29  
Old July 17th, 2012, 10:24 PM
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Rick Mabus
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Ok. So my thinking that my idle was fine around 900 was wrong and it should be around 525 ish? That does change some things. I think it is is time to dig a bit more then.
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  #30  
Old July 18th, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Rick Mabus
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I was doing some more thinking today and this is what I have come to. Rovertek. I mean no respect with this as you are by far a more versed mechanic but to be honest, asking guys to correctly diagnose a problem over the forum without actually seeing the truck is like playing "stump the chumps" on car talk.

I do think something is wrong in with the idle control or VSS (or possibly a bad new stepper). Here is why. The fact that I can turn off the truck quickly and turn it back on to reduce a high idle, and do this every time makes me think something is wrong in the electronics of the idle. This part is consistent. I have cleaned out most if not all of the hoses, although any vacuum hoses to brake boosters and such probably have not been touched (don't know where they are). As of now it is driving great but it is idling around 900, which is apparently high. I am going to try and turn it off with the gas pedal touched some here for a day or so and see if this impacts idle on cold startups and then we can see.

I also have my old stepper that might go back in for grins.
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  #31  
Old July 18th, 2012, 07:43 PM
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joe heins
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Another easy thing to do, it has fixed an idle problem on my truck before, pull the quick disconnect off the VSS plug (right in front of VSS about 8 inches up the wire,
then clean out the connectors real well with some electrical spray.
reconnect when dry. takes just a few minutes

Joe
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  #32  
Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Rick Mabus
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Well. It looks like my truck has relearned it's idle. I read that the computer has to "catch up" to the motor when you make adjustments like I did, so maybe that is what is happening here but as of now my truck is running really well. Fingers crossed everything got taken care of.
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  #33  
Old July 23rd, 2012, 12:29 PM
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BRIAN
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If I can ask... what is the idle now? Did it reset to the lower 525 or are you still looking at 900s? I've followed your thread with a similar problem but chose not to adjust my idle downward but cannot decide if this is correct... Thanks!
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  #34  
Old July 24th, 2012, 02:34 PM
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I have to be honest and say I was never at 900. I was not counting the bars on the tac right and it was actually high around 800. Now that it is running better it is settling in around 600 to 700. I guess that is still high but I think that is where this truck always was.
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  #35  
Old July 24th, 2012, 02:53 PM
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IMHO 700-800 for a manual defender idle is about right -- at least mine all seemed to idle in that range (not that it is easy to tell from the tach).
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  #36  
Old July 24th, 2012, 05:06 PM
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BRIAN
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That's good news evilfij, thanks!

RickM thanks for posting this thread... you helped me to sort out my thinking as well.

Good luck and hope this is all sorted.
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  #37  
Old July 24th, 2012, 07:00 PM
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Tyler Graves
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I seem to have a similar issue recently. My 97 has died on me a few times now. Best I can tell, when I come to a stop the idle keeps dropping then the engine quits. I haven't checked anything beyond a new battery, chassis ground seems reasonable, alternator is pushing about 13.4V at idle.

This happened once with a bad battery, and I couldn't get enough juice to restart and had to get a tow (what an embarrassment). Now with the new battery, I seem to be able to restart it and continue. But its still making me not want to drive it out of fear of another stranded situation, so I need to root cause to be satisfied.

The part that I'm confused about is that the interior lights start to come on (flickering a bit) right around the time the engine is struggling. Why would that happen? I'm not able to reproduce the slow death issue easily. It seems to know when I'm not within pushing distance to my house in order for it to happen!

Any suggestions appreciated.
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  #38  
Old July 24th, 2012, 11:52 PM
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Rick Mabus
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Hey man. I would really just give it a great cleaning. I would double check everything on the air side.

This is an order I might suggest.
1. Check/clean your air filter.
2. Stepper motor. Clean replace.
3. Intake manifold. Flush it hard core with carb cleaner. I used a whole bottle on this alone. Get the little small hose areas. Prop it open and let it air out.
4. Clean out the flame trap.
5. Check clean the vacuum hoses. May be brittle etc.

These are simply ways to spend as little as possible to get down to the brass tacks if you ask me. Also while you are at it check your valve cover screws. Just an FYI
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  #39  
Old July 25th, 2012, 08:09 AM
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chris
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Bad alternator .....really the internal regulator to be precise,
your alternator is putting out the correct voltage but not the right amps to sustain the load applied that's why your lights are flickering and since the ecu is not getting clean power you get stumbling stalling issues idle hunting ect...... like i always teach check the basics power and ground..
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  #40  
Old July 25th, 2012, 01:52 PM
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Tyler Graves
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Thanks RickM and Rovertek.

The voltage regulator, can that be replaced by itself or would I need a whole new alternator? Some sites selling just that one part.

RickM, I will run through your steps as well. Never done it, so I'm sure all that needs to be done nonetheless!

-Tyler
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