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  #81  
Old November 10th, 2015, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
All the more reason for a "troubled vendors" list here. I'm trying to figure out how to do one legally on DiscoWeb without venturing into libel territory. There needs to be a way to give a warning to new owners so they don't get suckered by people like this.
Just like the ULC&LR issues, best way to address it is to PM other customers, and ask about their experience. I had many pm's regarding the above, last year, and since it was private, clearly there was no agenda from either myself, or the inquirer. The question then is how do we set up a list of various shop's customers/clients, available to potential new clients, or those with current issues?
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  #82  
Old November 10th, 2015, 11:22 AM
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Thanks for chiming in Ash. I'm a sucker for a good redemption story. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Best of luck.



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Originally Posted by Ash View Post
I guess I should preface this by saying I am not a felon and am licensed to carry in 34 states. I was arrested while in high school by an overzealous police officer, and then almost immediately released and the charges were dropped. It was a stupid situation.

As to the DUI: It was another stupid situation that I handled in the worst way possible. I have a lot of regrets about the way it all unfolded, however my biggest is that I wasn't upfront with the customer. I drove the 90 to our painter's at the end of the day to get his thoughts on a full respray, then met a local customer up the road for dinner. We had too many drinks and I should have known to leave the truck parked, but the two mile drive home seemed too easy. After it was all said and done I was so incredibly ashamed of myself I had no idea what to do, and the thought of telling the customer exactly what happened was absolutely unfathomable at the time. In my haste I took what I thought was the easy way out. It ended up being arguably the biggest mistake I've made in my life, and one that could very well cost me this business. There aren't enough apologies in the world to correct the situation, and it has been a very hard life lesson on doing the right thing, despite how impossibly daunting it may seem.

I don't really know what else to say. I'm going to keep my nose to the grindstone fulfilling obligations to those customers who have had enough faith in myself and this company to stick around through this ordeal, and see where things go from there. Regardless of the outcome, I'll remain extremely grateful for the experiences and relationships, good and bad, that have come from this community over the years.

-Ash
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  #83  
Old November 10th, 2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
A lot of people can't deal with waiting almost two years to get their vehicle worked on. By and large, PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE MECHANICALLY SOUNDS VEHICLES AND ARE NOT BUYING THEM IN USUABLE RUNNING CONDITION. If you use a company that has a two year waiting period you need to plan ahead and treat sending it in like a 90,000 mile service. It's going to cost you, but you know it's coming.

Going out on a limb and probably going to piss people off with this next comment... From what I can tell, most people buy shitboxes that are broken within 3 months of purchasing them. By broken I mean straight fucked and requiring a massive overhaul to fix apocalyptic rust and resolve a impending engine failure or a catastrophic engine failure that's probably tied to equally fucked transmissions and transfer cases. Then there's the added desire to make their vehicle look the way they want it.

If people were content with patina and dents, they'd be able to focus on what matters on these vehicles, solid frame/bulkhead, and good underpinnings. i.e. the shit that you can't see from the outside. How many trucks sell for $40k plus because they have a shiny paint job that's actually garbage overspray on EVERYTHING?


Instead, people have a desire to get what they want right now and go with these shops because they are there. Pictures look good because of shiny paint. Work ends up terrible because it's all a sham.
Nice…pretty much sums it up…
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  #84  
Old November 10th, 2015, 12:01 PM
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I learned long ago. If you want it done right. Do it yourself. I have never had an issue with work I've done on my own cars even when I started out not having a clue how to do a job. but have had plenty of issues when I brought it somewhere.

Sure there are good shops out there. They are expensive and few and far between. Much better off learning how to do it yourself and then taking the time to actually do it.

You have to remember something....and this will prob piss a lot of people off but it's true.... A lot of these guys who are turning wrenches aren't there bc they graduated top of their class, I trust my own intellect a lot more than most folks, especially guys making $12/hr.
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  #85  
Old November 10th, 2015, 12:26 PM
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Ash,

I cannot accept the apology as it is written. There are multiple reasons that I do not believe this to be a sincere apology.

1) If you truly felt bad then you would have contacted me directly at some point along the line and tried to correct the situation. That never happened, in fact the few times I texted you I never received a response at all. You then tried not paying for the difference in parts when you delivered the truck.

2) This is the real reason I can't accept the fake apology; your story is BS.
On the official court documents for your arrest report it clearly states that you committed the offense at the corner of Orange Ave and Underwood st but you were pulled over at The corner of Orange Ave and west Gore st. Gore is north of underwood meaning you were traveling northbound heading towards downtown. According to the arrest report you gave your home address which is 2.2 miles south of where you were arrested. Google maps show it is nearly a straight shot from your house to where you were arrested and not convenient to I4. So the story you are telling about driving home after drinks is just that, a fictional story.

3) You would not have made up a story and lied to Cherie that I was riding shotgun at the time of the arrest. You were simply trying to make yourself look like the good guy taking one for the team.


As everyone can now see you are a smooth talker, but the adage "actions speak louder than words" is true for a reason.
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  #86  
Old November 10th, 2015, 12:28 PM
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sheisters gonna sheist
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  #87  
Old November 10th, 2015, 12:35 PM
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I don't use the word 'hate' very often at all, if ever but I hate threads like these. It's a sad situation for everyone involved. Best to you all..
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  #88  
Old November 10th, 2015, 12:39 PM
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Orlando has to be the absolute strangest place on earth.
no that's would be DC
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  #89  
Old November 10th, 2015, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
It's funny people scoff at ecr prices and talk how can they charge x for installing a cage or x for paint, then these threads pop up about the better value shop. These threads are basically commercials for why you would go with them.
And know it is done right when you get it. Plus last without any headaches while using it. From my experience with ECR beginning in 1998, every Rover on which they have worked has been better than I anticipated when it was either delivered or I fetched myself. Yes, it takes time, yet, the wait is well worth it. Can't recommend them more highly.
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  #90  
Old November 10th, 2015, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpfish82 View Post
Ash,

I cannot accept the apology as it is written. There are multiple reasons that I do not believe this to be a sincere apology.

1) If you truly felt bad then you would have contacted me directly at some point along the line and tried to correct the situation. That never happened, in fact the few times I texted you I never received a response at all. You then tried not paying for the difference in parts when you delivered the truck.

2) This is the real reason I can't accept the fake apology; your story is BS.
On the official court documents for your arrest report it clearly states that you committed the offense at the corner of Orange Ave and Underwood st but you were pulled over at The corner of Orange Ave and west Gore st. Gore is north of underwood meaning you were traveling northbound heading towards downtown. According to the arrest report you gave your home address which is 2.2 miles south of where you were arrested. Google maps show it is nearly a straight shot from your house to where you were arrested and not convenient to I4. So the story you are telling about driving home after drinks is just that, a fictional story.

3) You would not have made up a story and lied to Cherie that I was riding shotgun at the time of the arrest. You were simply trying to make yourself look like the good guy taking one for the team.


As everyone can now see you are a smooth talker, but the adage "actions speak louder than words" is true for a reason.
Mike, I have not contacted you almost exclusively on the very strong suggestion of Bryan. He made it abundantly clear that you had zero intention of speaking to me. I'm more than willing to have a conversation about this scenario if you are open to it, in fact I would actually prefer it.

The address on my license is the address on the arrest report, however I no longer live there. It's information that I need to update. And the information I gave Cherie was a poor attempt at saving face in a situation that I didn't know how to handle. As explained above, I made some incredibly poor decisions and I would be an absolute fool to think I could 'smooth talk' my way out of this scenario. The facts are clearly illustrated here and I have owned up to the situation. And I don't quite know what you mean when you say I tried to get out of paying for parts. I forgot to grab a check and had your friends follow me to the bank so that I could provide them with cash. It was a relatively easy transaction in my opinion.

You have my cell phone number if you wish to speak further.

-Ash
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  #91  
Old November 10th, 2015, 01:22 PM
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Ash,

Before replying I made sure to read back through every text I sent back and forth to Brian since I learned about your DUI in my truck. At no point did it ever come up for you not to contact me or otherwise. I made sure to communicate in writing to have a record of what was being said.

I am still missing parts that I originally ordered. You gave me money instead for the condenser which Brian swore you all would send the day after you delivered the truck. Also, Brian has told me he was sending a full set of the LED lights, that was three weeks ago and he claimed you all already had the lights in your possession. Doesn't take three weeks to send a small package an hour away.

The purpose of this thread is complete. My entire goal was to make the Defender community aware of the way that Geared treats its paying customers. The fact that nearly every customer has had to threaten a lawsuit to get their trucks back along with the lawsuit your former employer has against you says it all. If someone decides to send you a truck for repair or restoration then they need their head examined.

I have said all I needed to say. Thank you all for reading / listening and hope no one has to go through what many of us have over the past couple of yrs respectively.
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  #92  
Old November 10th, 2015, 02:16 PM
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You got a purdy mouth boy...

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Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Orlando has to be the absolute strangest place on earth.
While there is not one funny thing to joke about in this situation, that is funny shit right there. It is completely true and one cannot blame the Mouse, Abe.

It's the humidity...
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  #93  
Old November 10th, 2015, 02:20 PM
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Yeah. It attracts criminals consistently.

Probably because there is a significant portion of people who buy these trucks and have deep pockets and a strong desire for something that's perceived as unobtainable. This creates an environment and attitude where people throw a lot of money around and either they are super trusting individuals or they simply turn a blind eye to a lot of issues because they want it so bad.
I see your point but everyone doesn't have to be a crook.

There's an opportunity here for a guy with good business sense to make a lot of money. You're telling me nobody can do it?
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  #94  
Old November 10th, 2015, 03:00 PM
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Jim Cheney
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ECR is not expensive, and you don't need to go there to get good work done. Reputable shops doing restoration work bill time and materials. A good shop like ECR will ensure you're getting good value from the time you are paying for - they're not learning on your truck or underbidding to get your business and then failing to deliver because they bid too low.

There are lots of good shops, ECR isn't the only one.

And no one stocks ALL parts needed for a restoration, that's ridiculous. ECR is known for their stash, but that is a huge investment in capital for a well-established shop, and even they are going to have to order some stuff in.
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  #95  
Old November 10th, 2015, 04:53 PM
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Draw schedule, draw request, confirm work before payment…

I do not expect a shop to "floor plan" my project, but if I am required to show up with five figures before a job starts I cannot help but get the impression I am financing the business.
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  #96  
Old November 10th, 2015, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by doktorno View Post
Draw schedule, draw request, confirm work before payment…

I do not expect a shop to "floor plan" my project, but if I am required to show up with five figures before a job starts I cannot help but get the impression I am financing the business.
These restorations aren't cheap. They aren't cheap if you do them yourself and they aren't cheap when you pay someone else. The big difference is when you're doing it yourself you can work a little here and there, and buy a little part here and another part there, and it doesn't seem so expensive. When you pay someone else, they don't have that luxury. Working someone else's project a little here and there is a recipe for disaster. So they focus hard on your project, put in long hours, they make the decisions, and it's on you to pay for that service. The bottom line is you aren't just paying for labor and parts your paying for a project manager and a fixer.

Personally, I don't need or want clients who don't have an understanding of what they are paying for. Those types tend to gravitate to the lowest bidder, and I genuinely hope it works out for them but cutting corners is no fun for me and if it's not fun...
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  #97  
Old November 11th, 2015, 12:23 PM
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Crown14, most (all?) restorations are expensive. Just finishing up a '71 300SEL 6.3, so I am familiar with the costs. When I dropped off the 6.3 five figures worth of work did not happen day one, and although I am well into five figures worth of work I did not bring a five figure deposit. When I hire a contractor to build a building I do not pay the agreed contract price in full the day he delivers the porta-potti.
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  #98  
Old November 11th, 2015, 01:03 PM
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ECR is not expensive, and you don't need to go there to get good work done. Reputable shops doing restoration work bill time and materials.
I can't remember where/when, but I've seen some of ECR's billing statements and they seemed pretty reasonable to me at the time.


.
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  #99  
Old November 11th, 2015, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by doktorno View Post
When I hire a contractor to build a building I do not pay the agreed contract price in full the day he delivers the porta-potti.
Unless I missed something, I never suggested that you should.



Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if people were open and honest about their budget from day one, and sent what they were comfortable with paying for a restoration along with the vehicle in the first place. Imagine, if you can, a world of honest restorers, beautiful gleaming vehicles, and overjoyed owners.

Yeah I didn't think so.



The formula is simple. Old vehicle + $money = "restored". It takes money. Period. If you're scared to pay it, cut your losses now. That is all I am saying.
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  #100  
Old November 11th, 2015, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bossman429 View Post
I learned long ago. If you want it done right. Do it yourself. I have never had an issue with work I've done on my own cars even when I started out not having a clue how to do a job. but have had plenty of issues when I brought it somewhere.

Sure there are good shops out there. They are expensive and few and far between. Much better off learning how to do it yourself and then taking the time to actually do it.

You have to remember something....and this will prob piss a lot of people off but it's true.... A lot of these guys who are turning wrenches aren't there bc they graduated top of their class, I trust my own intellect a lot more than most folks, especially guys making $12/hr.
Isn't there a happy middle, though?

I get trying to do work yourself. But that's not always realistic. Therefore a review system or a list or a section for register/comments would make sense.

I work in cancer. Obviously I would never tell someone to "do it yourself," no matter how skilled they are at other stuff. In cancer we are reviewed, scrutinized, analyzed ten ways 'til Sunday by patients, colleagues, nurses and reviewers. If we suck at what we do then patients go elsewhere and other doctors stop referring. Same goes for dozens of other professions, from plumbers to piano teachers.

Why can we not have something like that in our forum? Yes, i get that sometimes you'll do your own work. And that's great. But in those cases where you can't or don't want to do it yourself, wouldn't it be great to be able to determine who is good and not so good? Who is reasonably priced and who isn't? Who meet their timelines and who don't?
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