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  #1  
Old November 13th, 2004, 09:06 AM
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MY 90 has died

200Tdi ninety
I experienced loss of power wouldn't pull 50mph on the flat. Now this morning it hardly runs at all
If I put my foot down theres no power at all, no acceleration, nothing, not even in 1st gear, then when lifting of fthe power the engine stalls out and takes a good bit of cranking to get started again. Once running it ticks over ok. The engine revs OK without load.
It feels almost like fuel starvation.
Things I've checked so far:
Fitted a new filter and bled it - no inprovement.
Mechanical lift pump - seems OK - squirts fuel allover the engine bay when operated manually.
Suggestions
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  #2  
Old November 13th, 2004, 10:27 AM
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Talking It's a loss

It's beyond repair, you should put the keys under the mat and I will be by to pick it up.

Seriously, I do not know much about the TDI setups I would hit some of the UK message boards if I were you.
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  #3  
Old November 13th, 2004, 10:29 AM
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Mike, I would still change the lift pump. You cant tell if its weak. It could Idle great but under load or higher RPM not produce enough pressure. Change it.
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  #4  
Old November 13th, 2004, 04:19 PM
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Right, I'll swap the 110 lift pump and stick it in the 90 and see what happens, I'm right in thinking it's only a couple of bolts in the block and two fuel pipes aren't I?
Thanks for the advice, I'll try it in the morning.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRhinoProducts
It's beyond repair, you should put the keys under the mat and I will be by to pick it up.
OOH ER! that bad
I think I'll make some attempt to fix it first.
Now where's the 4 lb lump hammer
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  #5  
Old November 13th, 2004, 04:40 PM
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Yes, 2 bolts 13mm?? and 2 pipes.

Randy
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  #6  
Old November 13th, 2004, 07:01 PM
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Great, I'll check the Haynes book of lies first.......
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  #7  
Old November 14th, 2004, 10:28 AM
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Talking

Splendid, mended
Swapped the lift pumps over. major accessability issues with one of the bolts holding it on.
90 went well for about 10 miles, turned onto the motorway, same old lack of power, top speed slowly bled away to 45-50 mph
Pulled off the motorway and bled the fuel filter which was strangely full of air again, despite benig bled 1/2 hour ago, power was back to normal,
It had to be an air leak on the suction side of the fuel lift pump. Finally tracked it down to the union at the fuel tank, cleaned it up, gave it a couple of wraps of PTFE tape and all seems well
Thank goodness I didn't leap in with a pump rebuild or something expensive.
Thanks for the helpful suggestion Randy, it eliminated one possible cause
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  #8  
Old November 20th, 2004, 02:37 AM
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Chris von C this thread links right up with how to flush a diesel tank.
Maybe the threads could merge, it seems that dirty diesel may not be the issue after all with Ed Hsu's 130
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  #9  
Old November 20th, 2004, 01:06 PM
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It's still not right, I'll be investing in new fuel pipes I think in the near future, And possibly a lift pmp because I've not completely ruled that out as a problem. I'll change one thing at a time starting with the cheapest/ easiest
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  #10  
Old November 21st, 2004, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover
Chris von C this thread links right up with how to flush a diesel tank.
Maybe the threads could merge, it seems that dirty diesel may not be the issue after all with Ed Hsu's 130
Hmm, well I think it's best to leave them separate, they are both good posts by themselves and it would be easier the way it is now when you are searching for "how to flush a tank" or "dead TDI" to find one then having them both together. I am sure when they get put in the FAQ they will both be in the same section.
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  #11  
Old November 21st, 2004, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover
200Tdi ninety
I experienced loss of power wouldn't pull 50mph on the flat. Now this morning it hardly runs at all
If I put my foot down theres no power at all, no acceleration, nothing, not even in 1st gear, then when lifting of fthe power the engine stalls out and takes a good bit of cranking to get started again. Once running it ticks over ok. The engine revs OK without load.
It feels almost like fuel starvation.
Things I've checked so far:
Fitted a new filter and bled it - no inprovement.
Mechanical lift pump - seems OK - squirts fuel allover the engine bay when operated manually.
Suggestions
Bin there done that. First there is some kind of sensor near the coil which is right over the exhaust mnfld. LR has a tch bulitain about this and offers (at least in the us) a kit to modify its postion. If you can't find it in the uk check Roversnorth(in Vermont i think in the us). after installing the kit (which aint a hard job) get a new coil from RN or whoever in the uk and plug that in. NOW change the oil! (Iknow you think I'm nutz) but all that hacking around has put a lot of fuel in the crankcase and I believe there is an oil sensor that is reading low oil and will not let it start.

You are a carbon copy of a problem I had last spring that took two shops and 3 month to solve on my 94 d90. If you need more info its crvn@earlth.net

Cheers.
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  #12  
Old November 22nd, 2004, 10:30 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions, we're not talking V8 petrol here, diesels don't have coils either. or spark plugs and distributors. We're talking compression ignition.
After replacing some of the suspect fuel connections on Sunday morning before off roading, it ran fine all day then you guessed it..... 35mph all the way home
Stopped at a friends house peered under the bonnet by torch light, removed the pipe taking fuel out of the lift pump to the fuel filter with the engine running expecting to get covered with fuel. Nothing. not a drop issued from the fuel pump and the engine kept ticking over sweetly
Gave the pump a couple of taps with a 13mm spanner and put the pipes back where they should have been.
The LR ran fine all the way home 60 - 70 mph
I'm replacing the lift pump as Tdi Guy suggested posts and posts ago but I'm utterly mystified as to how the engine seems to run with an inoperative fuel lift pump.
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  #13  
Old November 28th, 2004, 11:20 AM
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Thumbs down

Changed out the lift pump this afternoon. The old one was totally shot didn't pump fuel at all.
Housing on the pattern replacement wasn't as thick and the bolts had to be packed out with washers
All seemed well, new pump pumped fuel
Went on a long test run, held 70mph easily down the M25, after about 20+miles attacked a long steep twisty hill 1:4 ascent at least the 110 needs 2nd gear to get up & round the bends. the 90 flew up in 3rd ( the fuel pump and turbo waste gate are tweaked)
Then the misfire/ fuel starvation probs came back
There was air in the fuel filter, bled the filter and power was back to normal but not for very long. Air keeps finding it's way to the filter. I'm rather at a loss now. Keys will be under the front door mat soon at this rate.
What else can I try?

Suggestions please!

Do you think it could be a heat build-up thing?
Fuel tank pick up pipe blockage?
Should I drain the tank?
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  #14  
Old November 28th, 2004, 02:44 PM
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The only thing you can really do is check all connections/lines between tank and fuel filter. You are getting air in the lines, so there has to be an air leak somewhere still. I would reccomend blowing compressed air through both lines (take them loose at the tank and plug them), so you will be able to hear/see any air/diesel escaping.
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  #15  
Old November 28th, 2004, 05:49 PM
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When you unscrew your fuel cap, can you hear the pressure release as it is removed? Just trying to help.
~chris~
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  #16  
Old November 28th, 2004, 09:43 PM
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Mike,

When I put a diesel in my truck (6.5 not a TDI), I got rid of the lift pump on the engine, and put an electric fuel pump right near the fuel tank. This minimizes the potential sources for air leakage. And if you have a leak downstream of the pump, it's much easier to find diesel streaming out than looking for a vacuum leak. Also, it makes it really easy to bleed the system since you can turn the pump on without starting the engine.
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  #17  
Old November 29th, 2004, 03:31 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WD-90
When you unscrew your fuel cap, can you hear the pressure release as it is removed? Just trying to help.
~chris~
Good suggestion..... I'd already been there and cleaned out the one way valve in the fuel cap, had a diesel car once that virtually collapsed it's fuel tank when the vent to the atmosphere blocked

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada
Mike,

When I put a diesel in my truck (6.5 not a TDI), I got rid of the lift pump on the engine, and put an electric fuel pump right near the fuel tank. This minimizes the potential sources for air leakage. And if you have a leak downstream of the pump, it's much easier to find diesel streaming out than looking for a vacuum leak. Also, it makes it really easy to bleed the system since you can turn the pump on without starting the engine.
Now that is an interesting idea, might well try that, I'll have to have a dig round at a car breakers and see what I can come up with in the way of old fuel pumps as a temporary fix.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cox
The only thing you can really do is check all connections/lines between tank and fuel filter. You are getting air in the lines, so there has to be an air leak somewhere still. I would reccomend blowing compressed air through both lines (take them loose at the tank and plug them), so you will be able to hear/see any air/diesel escaping.
Another fine idea
I'm thoroughly enthused again.
I was seriously thinking about giving the truck to a 'grown-up' with a wad of cash and telling them to fix it.

I also wondered if there might be some junk in the bottom of the tank that gets sucked into the fuel pick-up pipe creating a blockage which then causes air to be sucked into the fuel line.
When I stop and tinker with it the obstruction drops out and normal service is resumed.
But it seems to run fine while it's cold, having bled the filter the problem always returns much more quickly when the engine is hot. that would maybe point to a problem with the fuel line near the engine, it heats up doen't seal properly anymore air gets dragged in. Intermittant faults - don't you just love 'em.

Another concern is that the partial lack of fuel could be knackering the fuel injection pump I really don't want to have to pay to get that rebuilt again.
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  #18  
Old November 30th, 2004, 01:05 PM
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Lightbulb

I think I've cracked it!
Typing the previous post set me thinking... I pulled the fuel pick-up right out the tank this afternoon and low and behold there was a plastic gauze filter at the bottom of the pick-up pipe! Don't remember that being there when I replaced the fuel sender unit Oh well it's there now and totally blocked to boot
Gave it a good seeing to with the air line and a good doucing in switch cleaner too just for good measure. Put the whole lot back together and at the moment it's running very well
It's amazing how the little things catch you out.
Peered into the bottom of the tank while the fuel sender unit was out, there's a fair bit of crud in the bottom of the tank
Now how do you flush a fuel tank???????
Actually I have a cunning plan, I'll siphon the crud out of the bottom of the tank by tying a plastic tube to a cane and them directing it through the fuel tank sender unit hole.
Pictures of me swallowing diesel and feeling very ill will, no doubt, follow.
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  #19  
Old December 1st, 2004, 01:58 PM
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Angry

Turns out that Land Rover deleted this little gauze filter at the bottom of the fuel pick-up pipe because...
you guessed it....
IT BLOCKS UP
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  #20  
Old May 18th, 2011, 08:44 PM
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It's baaaaaaack! Resurrecting an old thread but the truck is experiencing the same issues. Checking the fuel tank pickup pipe
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