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  #1  
Old July 4th, 2006, 05:39 PM
artm
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Arthur Maravelis
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motor conversion and OBDII

If doing a motor conversion on a 97 D90 w/OBDII, how do I deal with any OBDII requirements? With a few of you guys doing 2.8 conversions there doesn't seem to be any such requirement.

On the 2.8 swap:

Are you re-titling the truck to diesel?
How are you passing emissions?
If I fit an '89 motor into a '97 truck, I still have to meet '97 emissions, right?

Anticipating a head gasket job at 105K, I may be looking to do a 350 or 302 swap with Megasquirt so no OBDII.
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  #2  
Old July 5th, 2006, 09:38 AM
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David Marchand
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Art, what fuel type/engine are you looking to do?

If it's gas, yes, you still need to meet all emissions and OBDII functioning (un-tampered).

If it's diesel, pay $25 to get your title amended for the new fuel type. The letter of the law states: You can only convert a vehicle after it's initial documented 7,500 miles. That emissions testing for diesel light trucks, non-commercial plates (forget the weight classification) does not exist. You will only have a safety inspection annually. Their is gray area in the MA laws about OBDII and diesel conversions. The law states you cannot tamper with the OBDII system, but since their is no emissions testing, their is no need to touch the OBD hookup by the tester. So it depends on where you stand for that one.

This is all what I have documented from mine. It's been a while since I looked through the Regs to see if anything changed.
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  #3  
Old July 5th, 2006, 09:47 AM
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jim pendleton
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It could be possible to retain the fuel injection computer for an OBD II hookup. Just leave out a switched battery connection and all the old codes and status from prior to the conversion will be accessed through OBD II.

JP
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  #4  
Old July 5th, 2006, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
Art, what fuel type/engine are you looking to do?

If it's gas, yes, you still need to meet all emissions and OBDII functioning (un-tampered).

If it's diesel, pay $25 to get your title amended for the new fuel type. The letter of the law states: You can only convert a vehicle after it's initial documented 7,500 miles. That emissions testing for diesel light trucks, non-commercial plates (forget the weight classification) does not exist. You will only have a safety inspection annually. Their is gray area in the MA laws about OBDII and diesel conversions. The law states you cannot tamper with the OBDII system, but since their is no emissions testing, their is no need to touch the OBD hookup by the tester. So it depends on where you stand for that one.

This is all what I have documented from mine. It's been a while since I looked through the Regs to see if anything changed.
I'm not saying you should not convert to diesel (you should), but to the "letter of the law" you need to look at the "Engine Switching Fact Sheet" from the DOT. Basically, anything built after 1996 you can't change a damn thing. I'm not suggesting you live your life to the letter of the law or anthing, but as that phrase was mentioned... to the "letter of the law" you can not convert your Rover to 300 Tdi or 2.8PS on a Fed. level.

The "Engine Switching Fact Sheet" was the reason that RN and all the rest of us had to stop selling Tdi conversion kits as the DOT/EPA got wind of it and told us all to cease or face EPA fines for each kit sold.

On state levels there are many ways to install and register a diesel, some states don't care at all, but on a Fed. level it is illegal for road use in the USA to install anything not approved by the EPA in a late model road going vehicle.... to the "letter of the law".

But ask any guy with a Mustang, a supercharger and gutted cats... that wouldn't be "letter of the law legal" either.
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  #5  
Old July 5th, 2006, 11:01 AM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Dave: preference is for a 350/302 swap. Need my auto and, from what I've read here and there, you guys with the 2.8 still have cooling/tranny issues. Plus, it's gutless with an auto.

Jim: sure, old data is there but what's going to show during the smog test? No active data? If I have to keep an OBDII setup then the Megasquirt is out and a 350/302 ECU is in. But that will involve re-programming the ECU for static data (VIN# for one) and running data - beyond my scope!

Mike: I hear you. Looks like I'll have to stick with the 4.0 or do a total vehicle swap onto a pre-96 frame/vin - a bit too drastic at this point.
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  #6  
Old July 5th, 2006, 11:20 AM
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Agreed Mike. I failed to say I was referring to the MA state regs only. Not DOT/EPA or Federal level.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Dave: preference is for a 350/302 swap. Need my auto and, from what I've read here and there, you guys with the 2.8 still have cooling/tranny issues. Plus, it's gutless with an auto.
Why not do a 4.6 conversion? Wouldn't require too much work.

Nope. Pendy and Matt are solving the cooling concerns and trans shift points (which aren't a big deal to begin with). More a matter of ironing out the kinks from the conversion two years ago. I would disagree on the gutlessness until you drive one for yourself. I regularly beat a DII with a 4.0 from a standing stop on our highway trips to and from offroading events. The setup is only limited by the EGT's and how much you are willing to tweak the fuel lift pump. Of course a larger intercooler, etc is needed too.
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  #7  
Old July 5th, 2006, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Mike: I hear you. Looks like I'll have to stick with the 4.0 or do a total vehicle swap onto a pre-96 frame/vin - a bit too drastic at this point.

Nah, do what makes you happy and what your stae will allow. F the rest.
Its was just the technical aspect of the law that I wanted to address, not what you should or shouldn't do.

Follow-up Post:

There is some good data about state regs here... might be old though...

http://ncvecs.colostate.edu/ncvecs.docs/Reciprocity.htm
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  #8  
Old July 5th, 2006, 12:48 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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I'm trying to avoid a total rebuild, so no 4.6.

I'm trying to do this on the cheap since it's getting a Toy swap later. Sticking with the 4.0 and going to 4.11/35's should be fine but I would have loved some more cheap, American ponies - and avoiding all that Rover crap!

I'll see what Megasquirt's plans are for an OBDII system. Yeah, right!
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  #9  
Old July 5th, 2006, 01:07 PM
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Sell 97, buy high mileage/bad motor 94/95

Probably make out $$$ wise in the end.
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  #10  
Old July 6th, 2006, 11:04 AM
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jim pendleton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Jim: sure, old data is there but what's going to show during the smog test? No active data? If I have to keep an OBDII setup then the Megasquirt is out and a 350/302 ECU is in. But that will involve re-programming the ECU for static data (VIN# for one) and running data - beyond my scope!

.
They do not use the OBD II to do the smog readings. And the diesel will pass their specs. The OBD II has to be available for repair use by law. So make it available. The way the law reads they do not need to confirm anything other then they plugged into it and it was available. If the specs do not make them happy then you can leave with the vehicle to improve the readings. Biodiesel and the correct pump settings would make any readout green, though.

Practice your debate skills and walk the walk. You must show a willingness to conform and abide. But beg them to see you efforts to do so, they will bend. Don't loose your cool or be afraid to ask politely who else has the authority to rule in your favor. Sometimes it is embarassing for them to try and pass the buck.

Or just sit back and do nothing, except talk about it endlessly with no intentions of acting. It is an old topic that has been overcome by many in the past. Tell us how you make out with it.

JP
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  #11  
Old July 6th, 2006, 11:50 AM
artm
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Arthur Maravelis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
They do not use the OBD II to do the smog readings

You're right as to the smog. It's been a while since I've had mine "checked" and can't recall if they still check the tailpipe. I swear once they didn't and it was an emissions test - not the safety test.

In that case, what do they get off the OBDII? Can't be VIN#, they scan that off the label. If all they are checking for is fault codes set then it should be possible to fool them with a black box behind the OBDII port.

More research...there may yet be hope for Megasquirt.
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