Mid-80's D90 Brake Hardline Question (pics) - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 03:30 PM
NC Rover
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Nick
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Mid-80's D90 Brake Hardline Question (pics)

What style flare is called for on the end of the brake line that goes into the master brake cylinder? Single flare or double flare?

Mine are leaking and not mating up properly so I need to re-flare the brake lines.

I have mid-80's D90 brake setup: Solid Disc fronts and Rear Drums


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_K...0/IMAG0661.jpg
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1971 Series IIa Hybrid: 2.5L MILSPEC 5-Main Bearing Engine|Turner Engineering Performance Head w/ oversized hardened steel valves & phase shift/increased lift cam|LT77 Tranny/LT230 Transfer Case|11mm Ignition Wires/Super Coil|Jacobs Ignition/Petronix Ignitor|D90 Axles|Galvy Frame|Old Man Emu Coils|Cust Rear/Side Fuel Tanks|Cust Drive Shafts|
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  #2  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 04:13 PM
Naplm00
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Matthew
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Well it would be either double flare or bubble flare, You dont see single flare that often.

single flare is a single non-folded end in a trumpet shape (very old cars)
double flare is a trumpet shape but with the exterior folded inside (standard domestic)
bubble flare is a bulging nonfolded "bubble" on the end of the line (standard euro)



Double Vs Bubble

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201238131.jpg


Single Flare

http://image.customclassictrucks.com...uble_flare.jpg
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  #3  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 04:49 PM
NC Rover
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Nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
Well it would be either double flare or bubble flare, You dont see single flare that often.

single flare is a single non-folded end in a trumpet shape (very old cars)
double flare is a trumpet shape but with the exterior folded inside (standard domestic)
bubble flare is a bulging nonfolded "bubble" on the end of the line (standard euro)



Double Vs Bubble

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201238131.jpg


Single Flare

http://image.customclassictrucks.com...uble_flare.jpg
When I pulled the lines out, they were definitly bubble flared. Could I find a tool to do a bubble flare at a place like Autozone or do I need to special order the tool? I know you can kind of rig it to produce a bubble flare by reversing the flaring tool.

Also, are rover lines Metric? Thats my other issue..tough to find any metric flaring tools. looks like Home Depot carries some nice ones, but doesnt' say metric...only SAE.
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  #4  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 06:40 PM
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Jake K.
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Use your old fittings and grab some 3/16 line from auto-wherever. It is a bubble flare and you should be able to get a kit from the same place of choice.
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  #5  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverchef View Post
Use your old fittings and grab some 3/16 line from auto-wherever. It is a bubble flare and you should be able to get a kit from the same place of choice.

So far I've been to Autozone, Advanced Auto, and Home Depot. All carry the same dual flaring tool, but none of the tools can produce a bubble flare. Any suggestions?
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  #6  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:22 AM
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Tony Sims
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Most standard flaring kits do single and bubble. True double flare tools are less common in the US. It's possible that the tool itself is named "double flare", but it likely makes what we're calling a bubble flare.

I looked at the one that Autozone lists as their loaner tool, and found the exact same tool on Amazon, it looks like a standard flaring tool to me.

http://www.amazon.com/Astro-Pneumati...4399960&sr=1-3
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  #7  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 09:18 AM
Naplm00
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I think the harbor freight one I have does all the 3 types
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  #8  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 12:51 PM
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Jake K.
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The double is the "bubble" here in the states. Just don't clamp soo hard when making the final flare.
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  #9  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:25 PM
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Tony Lawson
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called a metric bubble flare. Very different from a double flare. Dont think Harbor frieght has one (anymore?)

looks like OTC makes one you can get on Amazon for $45. http://www.amazon.com/OTC-OTC6504-Bu.../dp/B00061SMFS
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  #10  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:37 PM
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lots of bad information in this thread. I've made enough brake lines to never want to do it again. Here goes:

Double flare. See Napalm's post above, this makes a double walled trumpet end. Metric and 3/16 line are basically the same. The single/double flaring kits are very commonly available in the USA and will make these just fine. They won't make a modern ISO bubble flare but the will make a passable old style bubble flare, sometimes, if you hold your mouth just right, and pray to Obama.

ISO/Bubble flare- there are two kinds of bubble. The modern ISO style is commonly found on defenders and US model RRC and possibly discos. They look like the second link in Napalm's post.

The old style or british bubble flare is often found on older series LR's. It differs in that it is rounded more so than angled and the back is rounded as well as the front. As opposed to the ISO style that has a flat back. You can buy an ISO flaring kit that will make a decent ISO flare, I bought one form Eastwood years ago. I did a coil sprung 88 using RR axles and had to make a bunch of the lines for it. I used the ISO flaring kit and it was a bit of a pain to get them right. But, it did work. If you screw up the flare you can just cut it off and make a new one.

I have not ever seen a kit that specifies that it can make proper old-style bubble flares.

3/16 or 4.5 something mm, same line, doesn't matter which you use.

Having said all that, I no longer have the old ISO kit and the last time I needed to use ISO flares, I used adapters to go from metric/bubble to US double. IOW I made short adapter pipes to go from the port on the M/C to the old factory line. That worked just fine though it was not as pretty as nice factory looking line. But it was an old RR that I just wanted to get brake fluid from point a to point b without leaking. I was converting it from ABS to non ABS and a few of the lines were too short.

If I ever buy another flaring tool I will shell out for the fedhill unit or something like it. Those little hand flaring kits kind of suck to use especially if the line is steel, and on or under the car.

I think it is always better to get a factory or aftermarket pipe that is specific to the application.

Whatever you do, double/triple check your work and make sure the flare nuts have good thread engagement and aren't leaking under pressure.
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  #11  
Old May 4th, 2011, 11:36 AM
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Nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post

Whatever you do, double/triple check your work and make sure the flare nuts have good thread engagement and aren't leaking under pressure.
Thanks for all of the information guys. I was able to produce the "bubble flare" with the rented dual flare tool from autozone.

This video helped out a bit with the process...




No more leaks and the brake system works great!
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  #12  
Old May 8th, 2011, 07:31 AM
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Tom Rowe
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I have this ISO/Bubble flare kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/OTC-4504/
It works fine, though I wouldn't want to do production line work with it.

I don't recommend making "fake" bubble flares by making a partial double flare. While I've done it before when I was young and naive (and the only bubble flare tool I could find in the US was about $300), I don't consider it safe. Brakes are one thing that should really be done correctly. And the tool is cheap enough.
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