Massachussetts new emissions testing - Diesel Engine Conversions - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 14th, 2008, 10:29 AM
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Some updates on state inspections. Mass as of Oct 1, has updated their inspection software and regulations. It appears that all vehicles 1997 and newer are required to pass an OBD II check (use to be just a federal thing) and as of April of 2009, all light duty diesel passenger vehicles will be required to pass Opacity emissions testing along with an OBD check.

Previously, there was no OBD check on diesel vehicles under 10K GVW with a diesel engine and no emissions testing.
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  #2  
Old October 14th, 2008, 10:33 AM
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David,
Is that for all light duty diesels model year 97 and newer?
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  #3  
Old October 14th, 2008, 10:47 AM
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Yup.

Precursor to what other states will see. Apparently the RMV/DEP is outsourcing it all to a private contractor.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
Some updates on state inspections. Mass as of Oct 1, has updated their inspection software and regulations. It appears that all vehicles 1997 and newer are required to pass an OBD II check (use to be just a federal thing) and as of April of 2009, all light duty diesel passenger vehicles will be required to pass Opacity emissions testing along with an OBD check.

Previously, there was no OBD check on diesel vehicles under 10K GVW with a diesel engine and no emissions testing.
So what are you gonna do about it? I believe as I had heard from "someone" that you can wire up the ODB connector to give a signal but I may have misunderstood or could just be completely wrong. You gonna register it out of state otherwise?
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  #5  
Old October 14th, 2008, 12:29 PM
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Mass new emissions testing

Thought a new thread should be started on this.

Here's the links to more details:

http://www.vehicletest.state.ma.us/about_howchange.html

http://www.vehicletest.state.ma.us/m...basicinfo.html

All guys with newer (1997+) diesels may have a concern just because of the opacity test.

Just another bunch of crap to deal with. If only the requirement was 10 years and newer for all vehicles then we'd all be in the clear.

Also, go here for interesting data:

http://216.146.86.7/MaReport/

Entering 1997 D90 shows a 14% failure rate since 2004!
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  #6  
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:14 PM
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It isn't the opacity I'm concerned about. That can be overcome with Bio. It is the OBD concern. With no ECU's there is nothing to plug into...
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  #7  
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheki
So what are you gonna do about it? I believe as I had heard from "someone" that you can wire up the ODB connector to give a signal but I may have misunderstood or could just be completely wrong. You gonna register it out of state otherwise?
Make it a big lawn ornament?

Don't know yet. I looked into the OBD "simulator" market. That looks like more tinkering.

I'm working on getting a waiver at the moment since the engine/conversion predates the regulation change and was done correctly under the guidance of the former regs. We'll see how that one swings. I'll keep the thread updated.

Knew this day was going to come. Just wasn't expecting it so soon.
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  #8  
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:55 PM
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Guys...let's move this thread about Mass to the one I started.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
Don't know yet. I looked into the OBD "simulator" market. That looks like more tinkering.

I'm working on getting a waiver at the moment since the engine/conversion predates the regulation change and was done correctly under the guidance of the former regs. We'll see how that one swings. I'll keep the thread updated.

Knew this day was going to come. Just wasn't expecting it so soon.

That was my big concern when thinking of swapping out my 97 motor - for an American V8. How do you deal with OBD2? I was surprised it was allowed to swap in a diesel as you then lose the OBD2.

At least with OBD1 the only issue is to fit a newer year motor - something that I can certainly live with.

The ideal solution, for me, is to build up on an older frame - Disco, RR, etc.. The only requirement on my 97 is an auto tranny. If I can slap on everything to a "reworked" 87 RR frame why the heck not? Since in Mass we need to be older than 1996 even better.

Forget this OBD2 crap!!!
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  #9  
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:43 PM
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The OBD2 issue at the state level is all about timing in my opinion. Mass. states that only 15% of cars on the road are 1996 or older, and they don't care about them for anything other than safety inspections. I have to imagine the same will evolve with the 1997 cars in a few years. They'll begin to exclude cars from emissions by year as the resources involved in re-testing, etc will be a waste of $$ based on the overall numbers. Just a matter of time before the state says: "any car 12 years or older from date of manufacture is exempt from emissions testing".
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  #10  
Old October 14th, 2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Guys...let's move this thread about Mass to the one I started.

Follow-up Post:



Forget this OBD2 crap!!!
YEAH! WHAT HE SAID!
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  #11  
Old October 17th, 2008, 07:59 AM
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Beware of simulators (what the f(*&^ that ever is) and keep in mind that as an owner of a vehicle every case of tampering with an OBDII system carries a $2500 fine from the EPA if they catch on ....which they will. In NH the system gets plugged in at the inspection station but is logged into the state system and if all is not legit the state red flags the vehicle and you have to have it fixed within (I forget how many) days. Point is that the inspection station no longer has the final say in the emmisions, it will be the State. The State is under pressure from the EPA to bring everything into compliance and sooner or later they will all be talking.

EPA fines for shops tampering is $25k per infraction. The major reason I no longer work on '97 + trucks.

IMO the only way around all this is to find a way to become exempt (and you can't legally rebuild on an old Range Rover VIN#) as attempt at compliance is really just digging a deeper hole.
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  #12  
Old October 17th, 2008, 09:14 AM
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Sell it to me for a dollar Dave and I will let you drive it anytime you want.
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  #13  
Old October 17th, 2008, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyddog11
IMO the only way around all this is to find a way to become exempt (and you can't legally rebuild on an old Range Rover VIN#)...
I didn't mean that this is the remedy for CURRENT 97 owners. However, for dedicated new owners...

It's been a while since I looked into this, but it has been legal in Mass to "construct a vehile". I didn't mean to transplant a 97 onto something older (that would not be acceptable, as you're essentially keeping the same vehicle) but to build up with a Chevy V8, 700R4, etc.. keeping the body, which we all love, and improving on the rest. Date of vehicle is based on year of motor.
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  #14  
Old October 17th, 2008, 11:23 AM
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I have dealt with this problem for a couple customers now. The correct fix is possible, but costly.
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  #15  
Old October 17th, 2008, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyddog11
The State is under pressure from the EPA to bring everything into compliance and sooner or later they will all be talking.
It is sooner. The new system accepts nothing out of the parameters for DOT/EPA approved vehicles. Anything flagged must get EPA approval. The state guys won't even bother and punt direct to EPA. And the EPA does their homework.

Further to that, the EPA guys say it would be okay of the manufacturer had been approved for diesel in the US. So far, I have found LR has not been (which we have guessed for years).
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  #16  
Old October 17th, 2008, 12:31 PM
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Diesels <8501GVW are still exempt from emissions in NYS

"Original" (2004):
http://www.nysdmv.com/forms/cr79.pdf

Effective 1/23/08
http://www.nysdmv.com/forms/cr79UP.pdf

If there is another update, I am not able to find it
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  #17  
Old October 17th, 2008, 12:39 PM
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Pendy: Ah, the man with the plan...that's a surprise!

...I read over the new things they're looking out for...missing side mirrors, aftermarket lights!

Short of an exemption for existing differences, the best we can hope for is a rolling range of affected years. I can certainly live with that as my system is stock so I'm not affected - but there's always the possibility of something going wrong...oh yeah, like this reoccurring off-road sensor crap! We'll see if clearing it just before inspection does the trick again next year.
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  #18  
Old October 17th, 2008, 12:51 PM
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The only thing I don't know yet is what the emissions values look like for gas compared to diesel. Given what I've found, if you can't make them comparable to pass, then you are SOL. My inclination is you are SOL anyway even if running B100. But I'll reserve judgement until I have the information since I'm certainly no expert.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Diesels <8501GVW are still exempt from emissions in NYS

"Original" (2004):
http://www.nysdmv.com/forms/cr79.pdf

Effective 1/23/08
http://www.nysdmv.com/forms/cr79UP.pdf

If there is another update, I am not able to find it
Mass was that way up until now. And the new Regs were just published two weeks before the systems changes.

Hope you can sleep at night...
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  #19  
Old October 17th, 2008, 03:52 PM
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No emission testing here in Larimer county

You could buy my house and register the D90 there
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  #20  
Old October 18th, 2008, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Date of vehicle is based on year of motor.
That's interesting.....meaning that the motor will have to be 23 yrs old to be EPA exempt, and that the body, frame would have to be older than that.

Last I knew you could rebuild with a non compliant body/frame and in some cases it seems (the Icon Landcruiser that TLC builds) putting a non compliant motor in seems to be considered compliant....which if all read seems contrary to the EPA info available.
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