major problem - Page 2 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old March 21st, 2007, 08:24 PM
huck1974's Avatar
huck1974
Status: Offline
shane cates
94 d90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: springfield mo
Posts: 890
Thanks man! If I find that that is the case tommorow, do you recommend upgrading or what setup did you go with? Is it worth it with the stock cv being still a weak link. Would love to get it back on the road again within a week but I would prefer to just do this once for the next couple of years. Time to go locking diff? Arb in front the best route? thanks again.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #22  
Old March 21st, 2007, 09:08 PM
sflash868's Avatar
sflash868
Status: Offline
Stephan Laputka
1995 D-90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 972
if you are going to pull the diff out and replace it or go with an aftermarket unit, you might want to consider your gearing. Maybe you might want to lower your final drive ratio but you would then be forced to do the rear as well. just a though considering it's gonna be apart.
__________________
Land Rovers are by far the best looking 4x4 on the back of a flatbed...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old March 21st, 2007, 10:01 PM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtracer
I meant the factory attempt at some kind of locker that involves clutches
ah huh! Non that I am aware of..
Unless your wheelin on rock & turnn a big tire I don't think you need toys
man there is alot of play in a rover drive train yours is no exception
I was trying to let you know there are no clutches
I believe the rest is pretty useful to a newb trying to save you time money ect
but you know all this right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtracer
there are no clutches. the divice you are speaking of [center difflock] locks the front drive & rear drive together & should not be used on pavement or where traction is good. does that help butt head
If you have the difflock engaged on pavment
oh ya you know all this right

The car clunks from the front end several times when slowing to a stop under ten miles per hour and feels like from the front end. It seems to be a lot worse when turning right. It does this in gear or out of gear. It does not do this under acceleration

Money on it being a cv you got that in one of your fist posts but refused to believe it.
switch sides with your cvs
could also be in the rp when you have it out ck the runout & make sure the gears look good
I doubt its the tc you would have probs all the time!

I believe education is all part of the process & it didn't sound like you had much. if you thought you had clutches in the thingy.



You most likely sir "are an asshole" and I will drive by you when you are stuck since you can't shut your trap unless you have something helpfull to say to someone who needs help. Don't get your head stuck up there too far just because you are a rover owner. You are the kind of person that puts that tag on the rest of us.

you sir have a long way to go if you ever want to pass me. oh & you ain't one of "US"
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24  
Old March 21st, 2007, 10:01 PM
huck1974's Avatar
huck1974
Status: Offline
shane cates
94 d90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: springfield mo
Posts: 890
good thought. If you could give me a recommendation please, I have 35" tires 2" lift. What would you say for gear ratio to retain some daily driving characteristics? Did you go with the arb or something else? Who is good to deal with in aftermarket diffs? What is the best front shock on the market for travel with a 2" lift? thanks?

By the way, I don't know if the diff is trashed yet, but it sure seems like that is the case after your suggestions and my findings. Will know for sure tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old March 21st, 2007, 10:16 PM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by huck1974
good thought. If you could give me a recommendation please, I have 35" tires 2" lift. What would you say for gear ratio to retain some daily driving characteristics? Did you go with the arb or something else? Who is good to deal with in aftermarket diffs? What is the best front shock on the market for travel with a 2" lift? thanks?

By the way, I don't know if the diff is trashed yet, but it sure seems like that is the case after your suggestions and my findings. Will know for sure tomorrow.
What your are asking can cost real doe!
700 just for the gears
800 arb 1
130 -200 bearings & shims per diff
I don't know about TT' & DT's but cheaper
I am not sure on labor to set it up cuz I do my own but it ain't cheap
Check with Bill at GBR &he will answer all
best shock is a loaded question my prefrence is Bilstein but fox is good as well
I have delt with Eshocks.com as well as most the guys around me good folks & fast.
To figure valve rates thats up to you
If you do all that remember your axles are weak & thats a whole other ball
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old March 21st, 2007, 10:40 PM
huck1974's Avatar
huck1974
Status: Offline
shane cates
94 d90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: springfield mo
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtracer
I was trying to let you know there are no clutches
I believe the rest is pretty useful to a newb trying to save you time money ect
but you know all this right!



If you have the difflock engaged on pavment
oh ya you know all this right

The car clunks from the front end several times when slowing to a stop under ten miles per hour and feels like from the front end. It seems to be a lot worse when turning right. It does this in gear or out of gear. It does not do this under acceleration

Money on it being a cv you got that in one of your fist posts but refused to believe it.
switch sides with your cvs
could also be in the rp when you have it out ck the runout & make sure the gears look good
I doubt its the tc you would have probs all the time!

I believe education is all part of the process & it didn't sound like you had much. if you thought you had clutches in the thingy.



You most likely sir "are an asshole" and I will drive by you when you are stuck since you can't shut your trap unless you have something helpfull to say to someone who needs help. Don't get your head stuck up there too far just because you are a rover owner. You are the kind of person that puts that tag on the rest of us.

you sir have a long way to go if you ever want to pass me. oh & you ain't one of "US"
I see we can't let it die. I learned a lot today from taking the damn thing apart. The cv joints look perfect. I do appreciate your other suggestions. Yes the car felt like the diff was stuck locked, but I used hans advise and found that the front wheels turned in the same direction with the back wheels on the ground. I apologize at my abruptness but can you see that you never tried to actually help? anyways, I don't lose sleep at night over it but would like to abide peacefully.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old March 21st, 2007, 10:42 PM
sflash868's Avatar
sflash868
Status: Offline
Stephan Laputka
1995 D-90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 972
As pete said there A LOT of opinions of all this. For any drivetrain info/parts call Bill at Great Basin Rovers. I know he has saved the butts of many individuals on this board and I have personally dropped the front and rear diffs of my truck in his driveway to get repaired when they randomly blew the same seal while driving cross country. I also have a 2 inch lift in my SW. When it comes to matching shocks to a lift it really depends on what you do with your car. Is it a daily driver? How hard do you wheel the truck?
As far as gears go.. I stayed with 3.54 because I have a 4.6 and 33 inch tires but mostly because i use my defender for cross country wheelin trips and I didn't want to go down I-70 at 3500 rpms for days on end. A lot of people here will tell you to go with 4.1 and with a 35s and a 3.9 so would I. Ur other choice is 3.99 which is a compromise but i can't claim any knowledge of what they are like.
__________________
Land Rovers are by far the best looking 4x4 on the back of a flatbed...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old March 21st, 2007, 10:47 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Sorry that your having trouble. I hope you find the cause. Do some searching around here and you will find hours of reading on upgrades. With 35's, if you wheel, get rid of the rover stuff. You are already at the upper limit of what aftermarket replacement parts can handle. Check out Rovertracks for a toy conversion. It's about the same price as GBR anyway but way stronger. Good luck.

Dave
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:01 PM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
what ever!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:26 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
Got a digital camera around? Maybe snap a few photos of the differential for us, as well as both ends of the axle shafts. Wheel bearings too, both the bearing AND the spot it rolls on. We might be able to spot something you aren't familiar with. Especially I'd like to see a closeup of the gears in the differential, not just the main ring and pinion, but also the smaller gears deeper inside it.

Since you tore the whole thing apart, the next step would be to give eveything a very good cleaning to get rid of all the grease and oil on it. (Just make sure to spray/wipe it all down with fresh oil while it's all apart, to prevent rust). Check all the gears, every tooth on every gear, for any signs of chipping. Inspect all the bearings for any grooves, strange color variations, uneven wear and stuff like that.

The condition of the oil/grease is important too. You said it was "Sludge", where in the axle assembly was the sludge? Was it black and full of grit/shiny particles? That area is the main spot I'd look for worn bearings and other wear surfaces.

Either way, while it's apart I think it would be best to find the problem before considering upgrades. At the bare minimum I'd replace all the wheel bearings and end seals. Upgrades are an option, but you do have to seriously ask yourself what your budget is for that kind of work and what you are going to do with the truck. Just don't change the differential/gears yourself. Take that down to a shop that can properly do the mesh and pre-load, or you'll be doing them again in 5,000 miles. It's very critical to get things shimmed and meshed correctly, or the gears self destruct pretty fast.
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:33 PM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
shiny particles?
one shot can look like that as well
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:35 PM
huck1974's Avatar
huck1974
Status: Offline
shane cates
94 d90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: springfield mo
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Sorry that your having trouble. I hope you find the cause. Do some searching around here and you will find hours of reading on upgrades. With 35's, if you wheel, get rid of the rover stuff. You are already at the upper limit of what aftermarket replacement parts can handle. Check out Rovertracks for a toy conversion. It's about the same price as GBR anyway but way stronger. Good luck.

Dave
did you also go toy in the rear? I'm assuming that you already have them in the front. I suppose front toy would be hard to match gears with a ford 9".

Sorry, muscle car guy here and dont know a stronger rear than that. Your rig looks pretty setup, so I believe whatever you have would be more than sufficient for my goals.

Its wierd, I just installed the 35s, and they dont look nearly as big as the ones on my cj7. I built it frame up with kevlar body.

Dropping a deisel or anything else in any car and having to make a few parts is run of the mill, but the drivetrain workings of this rig is a learning experience.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:42 PM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
Sorry, muscle car guy here and dont know a stronger rear than that.
14 bolt d60
I have broken several 9" diffs in the days of 40-44 muuders

guys have done a shit load of wheeing on rover stuff. but its your doe
do both if you are & then your done. its kinda like doin a head gasket job on one side
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:53 PM
huck1974's Avatar
huck1974
Status: Offline
shane cates
94 d90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: springfield mo
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans
Got a digital camera around? Maybe snap a few photos of the differential for us, as well as both ends of the axle shafts. Wheel bearings too, both the bearing AND the spot it rolls on. We might be able to spot something you aren't familiar with. Especially I'd like to see a closeup of the gears in the differential, not just the main ring and pinion, but also the smaller gears deeper inside it.

Since you tore the whole thing apart, the next step would be to give eveything a very good cleaning to get rid of all the grease and oil on it. (Just make sure to spray/wipe it all down with fresh oil while it's all apart, to prevent rust). Check all the gears, every tooth on every gear, for any signs of chipping. Inspect all the bearings for any grooves, strange color variations, uneven wear and stuff like that.

The condition of the oil/grease is important too. You said it was "Sludge", where in the axle assembly was the sludge? Was it black and full of grit/shiny particles? That area is the main spot I'd look for worn bearings and other wear surfaces.

Either way, while it's apart I think it would be best to find the problem before considering upgrades. At the bare minimum I'd replace all the wheel bearings and end seals. Upgrades are an option, but you do have to seriously ask yourself what your budget is for that kind of work and what you are going to do with the truck. Just don't change the differential/gears yourself. Take that down to a shop that can properly do the mesh and pre-load, or you'll be doing them again in 5,000 miles. It's very critical to get things shimmed and meshed correctly, or the gears self destruct pretty fast.
No, the sludge was limited to the steering resevior only. No shavings noted anywhere. Everything cool that I have taken out including wheel bearings. Had a mechanic buddy stop by and take a look also, and he agrees. I will try to get some pics and update you guys on the diff removal tommorow. Thanks you guys.

(the diff fluid was clean as I changed it when I replaced the rear pinion seal about a week or so ago and no shavings came out)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 12:18 AM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
how thick was the sludge
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 12:45 AM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtracer
14 bolt d60
I have broken several 9" diffs in the days of 40-44 muuders

guys have done a shit load of wheeing on rover stuff. but its your doe
do both if you are & then your done. its kinda like doin a head gasket job on one side
You set them up yourself didn't you?

A built nine is a good bit stronger than a D60, but weaker than a 14 bolt. Of course, there not rock anchors either. They have down sides, but are way overkill on 35's.

Yes, you can wheel just fine with rover stuff. But if you go to 35's or have an appetite for rocks, you are pushing it. For me it's a no brainer to go the Rovertracks route. If you are committed to 35's, the GBR stuff is maybe strong enough, maybe. I have seen the toy conversion in action on 37's under much heavier rigs in some of the hardest rocks out there. Might as well get the stronger parts if you are going to spend the money anyway.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by huck1974
did you also go toy in the rear? I'm assuming that you already have them in the front. I suppose front toy would be hard to match gears with a ford 9".

Sorry, muscle car guy here and dont know a stronger rear than that. Your rig looks pretty setup, so I believe whatever you have would be more than sufficient for my goals.

Its wierd, I just installed the 35s, and they dont look nearly as big as the ones on my cj7. I built it frame up with kevlar body.

Dropping a deisel or anything else in any car and having to make a few parts is run of the mill, but the drivetrain workings of this rig is a learning experience.
I hear you. I had a CJ and a Nissan before the Defender and there was a big learning curve. I have a 9/60 up front. It's way overkill for 35's. Give Kieth at Rovertracks a call before you make a decision on what you want to do. He is an honest guy and will be straight with you. Good luck. Let us know what you find when you pop out the third.

Dave
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 01:15 AM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
While you have the diff out, can you tell for sure that it's the factory open diff? or is it a limited slip/locker of some type?

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 01:18 AM
sflash868's Avatar
sflash868
Status: Offline
Stephan Laputka
1995 D-90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 972
I know you must be sick of hearing this but I really doubt it's the diff. I had the same symptoms once that you are describing and I couldn't figure out what in the world was wrong with the truck until i sat down in the grass in frustration to angrily chug a beer and noticed the passenger front tire cocked inwards 15 degrees. Inner bearing gave out. As you mentioned both the inner and outer bearings on both sides are good, right? Someone else can correct me if i'm wrong but I believe there is also a bearing inside the stub axle. Not sure if it could be the culprit but worth checking especially since you said the grease was more like sludge. These symptoms seem to be caused by weight transfer not the mechanical motion of turning. Under accel. weights off the front of the truck and no noise. You brake.. noise. turn to a side.. noise. This might even have been as simple as a loose hub nut. was one side looser than the other when dissasembing?
__________________
Land Rovers are by far the best looking 4x4 on the back of a flatbed...
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 09:35 AM
huck1974's Avatar
huck1974
Status: Offline
shane cates
94 d90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: springfield mo
Posts: 890
the bearings looked good. The hub nut was rediculously tight. It took a three foot breaker bar to get it loose. The sludge had the consistancy of half melted ice cream and was milky with water contamination. Will pull the rest apart and update early this evening. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 11:33 AM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
You set them up yourself didn't you?

LOL No! a built 460 4 speed & youth did them in.. never broke the 60's. shit this was a long time ago.
There is no doubt that the toy conversion is pretty bomb proof But it is a far amount of work.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by huck1974
the bearings looked good. The hub nut was rediculously tight. It took a three foot breaker bar to get it loose. The sludge had the consistancy of half melted ice cream and was milky with water contamination. Will pull the rest apart and update early this evening. Thanks
I am still with the cvs clean them well & oil them then in hand turn them & see if there is some binding. The milky shit was just in the swivel houseing yes? Also ck the bronze bush in the hub to see if theres some wear..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 AM.


Copyright