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  #1  
Old June 2nd, 2015, 09:54 PM
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Eric Wages
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LT230 rebuild q's and oil type

Hi folks,

I'm in the process of rebuilding my LT230, and after many parts orders, it's ready to go back together. I'm at the point where I'm measuring the thrust washers for the sun gears on the diff and I'm getting some odd results.

With the old gears, both 1.05 and 1.22mm shims, I get roughly 0.5lbs of pull using the method as outlined in the rebuild manual (see pic). Thinking the gears were overworn, I bought some new gears and put them in: I got the same result with both the new (1.05 fibre-type) and old (1.22mm copper) thrust washers. Interesting, no?

Now, here's one variable I could use input from the community. I've got LOTS of various gear oils around (due primarily to my gobs of vehicles). Notably:

Motul 90PA - primarily used for LSD applications. Mineral API GL-5, SAE90, MIL-K-2015 D. Extreme pressure, but specially formulated for LSDs.

Penzoil GearPlus SAE80W-90 GL-5. Claims comparability with Gl-5, SAE 80W-90, 90 or 80W-90 GL-5 grades as specified.

I also have a few bottles of 'Accel' brand SAE 75W-90. Claims it has premium extreme pressure additives.


Two questions:
1. Which of these (if any) would be right for the LT230 tcase? and
2. Would the right oil thicken up things enough to handle the pull test? I've been using the Motul to just do initial assembly lubricate of the center diff. For scale, it claims new gears should have an approx pull strength of >3lbs and I'm barely at 0.5lbs.

Thanks for your help!

-E
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  #2  
Old June 3rd, 2015, 06:18 AM
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Ben
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wouldn't the same viscosity have similar results regardless of their claims of pixie dust etc?

Is the instruction to pull on it when filled or clean and empty? Being British, i doubt it was specified.
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  #3  
Old June 3rd, 2015, 09:27 AM
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Eric Wages
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenderMd View Post
wouldn't the same viscosity have similar results regardless of their claims of pixie dust etc?

Is the instruction to pull on it when filled or clean and empty? Being British, i doubt it was specified.
The pull tests are when it's completely disassembled, lubricated with the proper oil, and with only the centre diff in the vise, an output shaft and flange, and the brake bolted to it. It's not swimming in oil.

If anyone is dying to follow along, skim forward to p.53 (!!!) of the manual: http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-file...aul_Manual.pdf
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  #4  
Old June 3rd, 2015, 10:12 AM
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Looks like you need to use thicker thrust washers. When I built mine I replaced the cross pin with Ashcroft's HD unit and new copper thrust washers. I used redline 75-90 during the assembly and it was about halfway between the two specs. I did fill the diff with oil and roll it around a bit before the test.

DefenderMD - None of the pull tests are done with a case full of oil as the case is still wide open. At this stage it isn't even in the case yet.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 10:15 AM
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I too went new gears/HD crosspin.

Is there a reasonable US source for these shims as a kit? The LT230 "shim kit" from Ashcroft doesn't actually include these shims.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 11:02 AM
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The shims in the kit worked for mine but I did see reference to the available sizes. I would check with Roversnorth.
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  #7  
Old June 3rd, 2015, 01:55 PM
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Eric Wages
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I rush ordered the 1.15, 1.25, 1.35, and 1.45 shims. If that doesn't solve it, I'm at a complete loss...
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  #8  
Old June 4th, 2015, 06:17 PM
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Jake K.
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75w140 Redline or any full synthetic of that weight will quiet down most of these boxes and will make the "PULL" test abit easier. Most of the noise/wear is from lack of lubrication not thrust shims +/-
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  #9  
Old June 5th, 2015, 08:47 PM
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Okay, here's what I'm seeing:

Front carrier, 1.45mm shim with front output shaft as noted in the written instructions: 0.8lb of pull tension.
Rear carrier, 1.45mm shim with rear output shaft as noted: 3.2lbs of pull tension and things are noticeably notchy, as expected.

Rear + front w/ 1.45mm shims and using the front output shaft in the front half of the carrier: ~4.1lbs of pull tension which is as expected with rear @ 3.2 and front at 0.8. As a reminder the spec, per side, with new gears is 3.8lbs, so with both at spec, rough pull completely assembled should be 7.2lbs.

So new questions:

1. Doc indicates front half/front shaft, but the manual *visually* looks like the REAR output shaft on front half. Odd.

2. Would it be crazy of me to run a mismatched front/rear shim setup that clearly has more preload on the rear half of the diff than the front? I'm guessing it will cause lots of odd wear and the front sun gear could slide around in there....

3. Is it better to run matched front/rear tension with new gears, or get it as good as I can (which I think is how I've got it at 4lbs of pull tension. Remember, what I pulled out was old gears/1.2mm shims front/rear.

4. Should I try to find some sort of thinner shim material and do two shims on the front side to balance it out?

5. Throw my hands up, say screw it, and get a new (or used) center diff?

I'm really at a loss on this pull test stuff. I can't find any videos online of folks doing it, so I want to be 100% I'm doing it correctly with the same expectations/angles/etc.

Thanks for any assistance folks can give!

-E
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  #10  
Old June 6th, 2015, 11:51 AM
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Eric Wages
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Warning: It's about to get math-y.

After recognizing this dramatic difference between tension tests, I did a bunch of measurements referencing the picture below.

Front half of diff:
A = 28.5mm (new gear)
B = Between 28.59 and 28.69mm, testing at multiple places
C = 13.12-13.16mm (with a 1.45mm shim)

Rear half of diff:
A = 28.5mm (new gear)
B = Between 27.94 and 28.04mm, testing at multiple places
C = 12.7-12.75mm (with a 1.45mm shim)

As a reminder, the tension with the rear half setup is close to correct, so I'm going to jump to the conclusion that the C dimension, with new gears should be ~ 12.7mm.

That means, my C measurement on the front half of the diff is off by 0.4-0.5mm. Quite a huge amount! From a visual inspection of the front half of the carrier, it's worn at the thrust shim area, but nowhere near 0.4-0.5mm.

Since it's impossible to get a LR-specific part that's 1.85mm, I'm now wondering the following:

- Was it ever right in the first place? The shims I pulled out were 1.25, a far cry from the 1.85 now needed.
- Am I just over thinking this thing? Just slap it in and go? 0.4-0.5mm seems like a lot of slop to me which will certainly cause a noisy tcase, but not sure about any wear problems.
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  #11  
Old June 6th, 2015, 11:18 PM
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I've decided to say "screw it" and just reassemble as is. Wife has green-lighted me replacing the whole unit if this goes south.

Press on regardless!
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  #12  
Old June 7th, 2015, 02:22 PM
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I use reline mt90 in my lt230 and mtl in my lt77. They both noticbly quieted down from the 80w90 and the Trans warms up alot faster in thr winter months. Shifts aren't like butter, but wayy less "chunky"
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  #13  
Old June 7th, 2015, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneTen View Post
I've decided to say "screw it" and just reassemble as is. Wife has green-lighted me replacing the whole unit if this goes south.

Press on regardless!
Good decisions!
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