LT 77 Fluid change - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 9th, 2014, 04:16 PM
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Alistair Davidson
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LT 77 Fluid change

Wanting to change the tranny fluid in my ex mod 86 90. Haynes manual says to replace drainplug washer regardless of its condition. Should i adhere to this...? and if so where is best place to attain a new drain plug from?
Also Haynes says to use ATF. I have seen on here Redline MTF is recomended for the R380. Suggestions for the LT77?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old March 9th, 2014, 04:31 PM
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The washer should be fine. Redline MTL.
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Old March 9th, 2014, 05:16 PM
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If you are going to re-use your copper washer and there is no damage to it you really need to re-anneal it. I will soften up again. if you don't your just pissing against the wind and it will leak.

get cheery red with either a blow torch or gas fire and use a piece of copper wire to handle it with.

I must add this only works with solid washers, if its the compression (i.e spark plug type) use new.
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  #4  
Old March 9th, 2014, 05:45 PM
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I've never changed or annealed a gear box washer and never had a leak.
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  #5  
Old March 9th, 2014, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
I've never changed or annealed a gear box washer and never had a leak.
Same here. I will stay away from what oil other than say LT77 spec was ATF type F from rover and that is what I put in mine, but I have not driven that trans yet.
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Old March 9th, 2014, 08:55 PM
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Rover called for ATF because at the time there were no low viscosity manual transmission fluids on the market. The dedicated MTFs are better for gear life and make the synchros work better.
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Old March 9th, 2014, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Rover called for ATF because at the time there were no low viscosity manual transmission fluids on the market. The dedicated MTFs are better for gear life and make the synchros work better.
Did rover ever change the spec on the LT77 like they did on the R380? I run redline MTL in my r380.
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Old March 9th, 2014, 09:00 PM
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I run synthetic gypsy tears in my LT77.
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  #9  
Old March 9th, 2014, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Did rover ever change the spec on the LT77 like they did on the R380? I run redline MTL in my r380.
No. MTF came out after the LT77. They don't back date fluid recommendations.
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Old March 9th, 2014, 10:59 PM
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They stopped making the LT77 in 1993 or so. The spec change to MTF happened in 2000.
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  #11  
Old April 7th, 2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post

No. MTF came out after the LT77. They don't back date fluid recommendations.
When you say Redline MTF are you also referring to MTL and specifically 75/80?
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  #12  
Old April 7th, 2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
When you say Redline MTF are you also referring to MTL and specifically 75/80?
MTF is the MTF94 land rover stuff.

MTL is redline: http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?product=50204 (it even mentions the LT77)

I wonder if I could use the Honda stuff (which is also mentioned on redline's page). It's even cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Honda-.../dp/B001IWL1O8
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Old April 7th, 2014, 11:46 AM
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Careful...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
When you say Redline MTF are you also referring to MTL and specifically 75/80?
You will be better off using 75-90W gear oil in the LT77 if it has 90WT now.
I use to swap out 90WT to synthetic MT94 on the LT77, but had several fail and this weekend swapped out an R380 Stumpy for a failed LT77 that had Dexron 3 inside.
All were working fine and failed shortly after the 90wt was changed for lighter fluid.

The sealing washer does not need to be replaced unless it is broken or unusually distorted.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
failed LT77 that had Dexron 3 inside
dexron has friction modifiers in it, that type F shouldn't. What failed? If it was syncros, I can see dexron causing that.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 11:52 AM
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I firmly disagree. A heavy oil like a 75W-90 will make cold shifting impossible and you will destroy the pump in cold weather.

I've driven LT77 boxes with 200000 miles on them running ATF their whole lives and they shift like new. Early boxes have very small layshaft bearings. The bearings are overloaded and fail eventually. Oil is not going to affect the failure of those bearings. What oil does do is affect synchro life. The proper MTFs have the correct friction properties for good synchro life. A heavy weight oil prevents the synchros from working when the oil is cold.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafir View Post
dexron has friction modifiers in it, that type F shouldn't. What failed? If it was syncros, I can see dexron causing that.
In all cases the front bearing on the laygear failed making it impossible to shift into most gears.

We chopped the primary pinion to have a nice "real McCoy" clutch alignment tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
I firmly disagree. A heavy oil like a 75W-90 will make cold shifting impossible...
Can only tell you exactly what happened based on failures just after changing fluids.
That's all.
This can be debated all day, but personally I will never use ATF or MTF in an LT77 that originally had 90WT because of the very high failures: 4 for 4 so far.
In each case all was well until the 90wt was substituted for MTF or ATF.
This may be specifically due to leaking and low fluid levels because one thing is for sure:
MTF and ATF will leak where no 90WT has leaked before.
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  #17  
Old April 7th, 2014, 12:06 PM
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Do these are abused boxes using the wrong fluids for long periods and your solution is to use the wrong fluid after a rebuild?

How about using the right fluid, a good MTF and watch them last forever.

Never run an early box (pre F) behind a tdi. It will die.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Do these are abused boxes using the wrong fluids for long periods and your solution is to use the wrong fluid after a rebuild?

How about using the right fluid, a good MTF and watch them last forever.

Never run an early box (pre F) behind a tdi. It will die.
Again in all cases, these LT77s (mixed suffixes) were fine with the 90wt and failed almost immediately after being changed out for ATF/MTF.

2 were C
1 G
1 H
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  #19  
Old April 7th, 2014, 12:31 PM
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I personally can't imagine seeing running 90W gear oil in an LT77 after seeing it open.

The gerotor oil pump is made of a lightweight fiber resin and the oil passages in the shafts are just a few mm in diameter.

It is most definitely made for something with waterlike consistency like ATF.
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  #20  
Old April 7th, 2014, 12:33 PM
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I'm sorry, but there is no way that the oil affects bearing failures. Gear or synchro wear, sure, but not bearings. It is just a coincidence.

The boxes will be destroyed if used in cold weather. They will not be able to shift at all when really cold.
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