LR4's - Page 3 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 07:33 PM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I still don't get the "looks like a Ford Explorer" comments. No vehicles in the LR lineup look at all like an Explorer. I've even seen a new Ford Explorer next to a new Range Rover. Not even close.
Your kidding right?
It's hard to tell the discovery sport apart..... See one drive by and don't see the Land Rover badge and you will not know the difference
Look at those side by side pics...... Even the inside is a copy!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #42  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 08:04 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,543
Registry
Well, I'm not kidding, but I can try to justify my opinion. Please forgive the following blather:

I have seen both in person and they look similar but are in no way the same.

The most obvious similarities are the clamshell hood and the C-pillar. Everything else makes the profile of the two vehicles virtually no different from any other SUV on the market.

I'll address each individually:

1. The C-pillar.

The C-Pillar on the Discovery Sport is a hold-over from the Freelander 2, released in 2006 (predating the Ford Explorer by 4 years!). Before that, it was common on many different SUV's, going back to the Chevy Suburban of 1935 and even further before.

The mere existence, therefore, of a body color C-Pillar is therefore not conclusive evidence that a vehicle is a copy of another vehicle.

Now, examine the C-pillars of the respective vehicles in detail in the images below. Look carefully at where the rear window meets the roof, the kink in the door glass, and the style line. Also note the significant different in rake and the roof line.

2. The Bonnet.

The bonnet of both the Ford Explorer and the Disco Sport are clamshells, but that is where the similarities end.

First, the bonnets are at different angles, with the Disco Sport being more steeply angled. Note also that the grill line is at a different angle from the Explorer. Note also that the wheel well of the Disco Sport is much larger than that of the Explorer and the bulge of the wheel well is much more flared as well. This is visible on head-on views of the vehicles.

Note also that the bonnet shutline reaches and follows the windshield, then is extended with a crease to the door. The Explorer's shutline ends far before the windshield.

Next, note the vent present in the Disco Sport and not in the Explorer.

Note, also, that the headlight of the Disco Sport is much more visible in Profile, showing how much more curved the headlamp and bumper is compared to the Explorer.

There are many more differences.

Therefore, I conclude that one can accuse the Discovery Sport of looking "generic", but to single it out as derivative of the Ford Explorer is - in my humble opinion - inaccurate.

In fact, I would contend that the Discovery Sport looks more like an evolution of the LR2, which predates the Ford Explorer, further lending credence to the idea that the Disco Sport may be derivative but not derivative of the Ford Explorer specifically.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	explorer1.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	21.4 KB
ID:	136260   Click image for larger version

Name:	sport2.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	82.3 KB
ID:	136262  

Click image for larger version

Name:	explorer2.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	18.6 KB
ID:	136263  
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 08:54 PM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
My LR3 does not have any sunroof: no problem.
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #44  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 09:04 PM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonLand View Post
My LR3 does not have any sunroof: no problem.
Really? I've never seen one without. Is yours one of those that came from the factory with coil springs and no terrain response?
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 09:16 PM
leastonce's Avatar
leastonce
Status: Offline
Jason England
D-90 White 95 SW #65
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,078
Registry
I spoke to a ford exec who is now CIO for the redbull F1 team a while back and he said the Land Rover / ford similarities were a very conscious design language used by the brand. As the design and delivery cycles on vehicles is so long it will take quite a while to iterate them out.
__________________
Quote:
Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
Car Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Cat Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 09:24 PM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Well, I'm not kidding, but I can try to justify my opinion. Please forgive the following blather: I have seen both in person and they look similar but are in no way the same. The most obvious similarities are the clamshell hood and the C-pillar. Everything else makes the profile of the two vehicles virtually no different from any other SUV on the market. I'll address each individually: 1. The C-pillar. The C-Pillar on the Discovery Sport is a hold-over from the Freelander 2, released in 2006 (predating the Ford Explorer by 4 years!). Before that, it was common on many different SUV's, going back to the Chevy Suburban of 1935 and even further before. The mere existence, therefore, of a body color C-Pillar is therefore not conclusive evidence that a vehicle is a copy of another vehicle. Now, examine the C-pillars of the respective vehicles in detail in the images below. Look carefully at where the rear window meets the roof, the kink in the door glass, and the style line. Also note the significant different in rake and the roof line. 2. The Bonnet. The bonnet of both the Ford Explorer and the Disco Sport are clamshells, but that is where the similarities end. First, the bonnets are at different angles, with the Disco Sport being more steeply angled. Note also that the grill line is at a different angle from the Explorer. Note also that the wheel well of the Disco Sport is much larger than that of the Explorer and the bulge of the wheel well is much more flared as well. This is visible on head-on views of the vehicles. Note also that the bonnet shutline reaches and follows the windshield, then is extended with a crease to the door. The Explorer's shutline ends far before the windshield. Next, note the vent present in the Disco Sport and not in the Explorer. Note, also, that the headlight of the Disco Sport is much more visible in Profile, showing how much more curved the headlamp and bumper is compared to the Explorer. There are many more differences. Therefore, I conclude that one can accuse the Discovery Sport of looking "generic", but to single it out as derivative of the Ford Explorer is - in my humble opinion - inaccurate. In fact, I would contend that the Discovery Sport looks more like an evolution of the LR2, which predates the Ford Explorer, further lending credence to the idea that the Disco Sport may be derivative but not derivative of the Ford Explorer specifically.

Ok ok your right they are not exactly the same. My point is at a quick glance as the truck is driving by they both can be easily mistaken for each other.

It's not instantly recognized as a Land Rover....
The Range Rover the discover the defender you can see from a block away and now each new model just morphs closer and closer to looking like the same vehicle...... The evoque the Range Rover the rover sport and now the disco sport at quick glance can all look the same.
And yes I agree it doesn't just look like the ford. Almost all SUVs are all morphing into the same car with tiny little rear windows you can't see out of.....

But at least the new defender will look like a real truck.........
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 09:26 PM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Really? I've never seen one without. Is yours one of those that came from the factory with coil springs and no terrain response?
Nope. It's an 06 with the V6 (Ford [explorer] engine), third row seating and 18" wheels (5 spoke, not common). No entertainment system but with air suspension and terrain response.
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 09:34 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,543
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by koltonstanley View Post
The evoque the Range Rover the rover sport and now the disco sport at quick glance can all look the same.
Yeah, that's a big issue for sure. One thing about the Discovery that is really awesome is its angular shape, stepped roofline (higher in the back), and height above the waistline. The rear hatch glass is asymmetric. It is so distinctive and handsome, and very different from other vehicles. The LR4 really looks like a futuristic version of a Disco 1 to me, which is awesome.

It's really disappointing that the Discovery Sport wears the Discovery name and really doesn't have the historic style cues of Discoveries past. It's just sad.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 09:35 PM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonLand View Post
Nope. It's an 06 with the V6 (Ford [explorer] engine), third row seating and 18" wheels (5 spoke, not common). No entertainment system but with air suspension and terrain response.
I think all V6 LR3's have the 5 spoke wheels. I didn't even know you could get an LR3 in the US without a sunroof. I've probably just never noticed since I don't ever open them unless someone has a problem.
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old December 3rd, 2015, 09:38 PM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Yeah, that's a big issue for sure. One thing about the Discovery that is really awesome is its angular shape, stepped roofline (higher in the back), and height above the waistline. It is so distinctive and handsome, and very different from other vehicles. The LR4 really looks like a futuristic version of a Disco 1 to me, which is awesome. It's really disappointing that the Discovery Sport wears the Discovery name and really doesn't have the historic style cues of Discoveries past. It's just sad.
I agree with this 100 percent.
I have my fingers crossed that there will be a non discovery sport in the near future that will look like the current lr4.....
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old December 4th, 2015, 08:43 AM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,085
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_eaze View Post
I have a 2012 LR4 with 85K miles that I am getting ready to list on auto trader for $28K if anyone is interested. Its been a great car for our family. Has a warranty until 100K miles or end of 2016. Also has a roof rack and rear ladder on it. If anyone is interested send me a PM.
Doubt it makes sense given the quadrillion right here in my backyard but curious what interior and exterior colors are and maintenance records you have.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old December 4th, 2015, 08:59 AM
toad's Avatar
toad
Status: Offline
Cutter
None
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Yeah, that's a big issue for sure. One thing about the Discovery that is really awesome is its angular shape, stepped roofline (higher in the back), and height above the waistline. The rear hatch glass is asymmetric. It is so distinctive and handsome, and very different from other vehicles. The LR4 really looks like a futuristic version of a Disco 1 to me, which is awesome.

It's really disappointing that the Discovery Sport wears the Discovery name and really doesn't have the historic style cues of Discoveries past. It's just sad.
Yeah this is it. The LR3/4 are discovery's; they share a lineage. The Disco 1 was a new vehicle for land rover but it clearly had references to the Series and Defenders before (as well as some to the Rangies). The LR3 and 4 are definitely more luxurious than the previous models but still have a unique "rover" feel to them. The Disco sport, not so much. I like the LR3 more and more, I think the design holds up- while the LR4 is overall similar, the details are way too bling for my tastes.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old December 4th, 2015, 10:24 AM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by toad View Post
Yeah this is it. The LR3/4 are discovery's; they share a lineage. The Disco 1 was a new vehicle for land rover but it clearly had references to the Series and Defenders before (as well as some to the Rangies). The LR3 and 4 are definitely more luxurious than the previous models but still have a unique "rover" feel to them. The Disco sport, not so much. I like the LR3 more and more, I think the design holds up- while the LR4 is overall similar, the details are way too bling for my tastes.
Yes I'm basically just repeating you but I like the way you put it. A lineage. The lr4 is still a discovery....and a Land Rover.

All the other models have no Land Rover lineage...... Maybe maybe I still see some classic Range Rover in the new Range Rover but only if I squint my eyes a little....
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old December 4th, 2015, 10:33 AM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,085
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by koltonstanley View Post
Yes I'm basically just repeating you but I like the way you put it. A lineage. The lr4 is still a discovery....and a Land Rover.

All the other models have no Land Rover lineage...... Maybe maybe I still see some classic Range Rover in the new Range Rover but only if I squint my eyes a little....
Agreed. Even the designer is gone.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old December 4th, 2015, 11:23 AM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,085
Registry
I'd like a short list of the services and/or parts/labor that should be considered when comparing apples and oranges (i.e.; Which is the better deal if one truck has 20K miles and another has 40K miles and they are $10K apart?)

Conservative Estimates:

Oil Changes $150/each
Trans Service $1500
Lower Control Arms $3000
New Tires $2000

Anything else worth listing?
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old December 4th, 2015, 11:39 AM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
I'd like a short list of the services and/or parts/labor that should be considered when comparing apples and oranges (i.e.; Which is the better deal if one truck has 20K miles and another has 40K miles and they are $10K apart?)

Conservative Estimates:

Oil Changes $150/each
Trans Service $1500
Lower Control Arms $3000
New Tires $2000

Anything else worth listing?
Can't see 2k on tires or 3k on the LCA's. Independent quoted me 1200-1300 to do LCAs on an LR3.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old December 4th, 2015, 11:45 AM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
I usually just do the rear bushing on the control arms for 6 hours labor and probably less than $300 in parts plus an alignment.
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old December 4th, 2015, 12:01 PM
WeBeCinYa's Avatar
WeBeCinYa
Status: Offline
WeBeCinYa
94 ST #84
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 2,388
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
I'd like a short list of the services and/or parts/labor that should be considered when comparing apples and oranges (i.e.; Which is the better deal if one truck has 20K miles and another has 40K miles and they are $10K apart?) Conservative Estimates: Oil Changes $150/each Trans Service $1500 Lower Control Arms $3000 New Tires $2000 Anything else worth listing?
Those conservative estimates sound excessive but I guess anyone can name a price. I'd shop around.
__________________
1994 Defender 90
2006 LR3 SE
1996 Discovery I (sold)
1991 Range Rover Classic (sold)
1995 Range Rover Classic (sold)
2006 LR3 SE (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old December 4th, 2015, 12:26 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
So about $1200 plus tax?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
I usually just do the rear bushing on the control arms for 6 hours labor and probably less than $300 in parts plus an alignment.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old December 4th, 2015, 12:27 PM
bjf's Avatar
bjf
Status: Online
barry f
94 ST #395
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: los angeles
Posts: 10,969
I think I did control arms for under 800 on my lr4.
__________________
Quote:
Are there shocks that I can addjust up and down like my friends LX460? That would be very cool!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New 2011 Black LR4 Metropolis Edition Available! Stmpede For Sale - Vehicles 19 September 22nd, 2011 12:37 PM
LR4 in Chasing Classic Cars specops1526 Misc. Chit-Chat 4 October 10th, 2010 11:06 PM
Trailer Hitch Attachment for new RR or LR4 TDI Guy Wanted 6 September 21st, 2010 06:55 PM
Disco/LR4 JohnsD90 Misc. Chit-Chat 2 October 5th, 2009 12:11 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 PM.


Copyright