Locker debate - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old November 18th, 2010, 08:25 PM
TexasD-90's Avatar
TexasD-90
Status: Offline
Martin Spencer
1994 D-90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Graford, TX, USA
Posts: 268
Locker debate

I got in a debate today with a friend over the best lockers. I feel that ARB's are the best because you can open your diff and leave it open. He says ARBs have lots of problems on the trail due to air lines, to many connections to get loose, etc. He believes something like a detroit or other limited slip is the way to go for durability. What do you think? What would be the ultimate set up for wheeling and driving on the road?

------ Follow up post added November 18th, 2010 07:26 PM ------

sorry, this should be in the misc. chat section if someone can move it.
__________________
That is why it is called a short cut. If it was easy it would just be "the way."
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old November 18th, 2010, 09:48 PM
bharris's Avatar
bharris
Status: Offline
Brad Harris
1994 d90 300tdi "Nola"
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 955
point of order: a detroit is not a limited slip, it's an auto-locker...

(usually paired with a limited slip in front though)
__________________
"well... we're not building a piano"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 18th, 2010, 10:05 PM
mightymg's Avatar
mightymg
Status: Offline
Lane Farka
97 D90, 05 LR3, 95 RRC LWB
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Clinton Ut
Posts: 744
The benefit to the ARB is exactly that it gives you the ability to lock and unlock whenever you want, limiting the stress on axles and cvs. but the Detroit is rock solid. lock it and as long as you have heavy duty rears dont worry about it.... the ARBs have been known to leak at the o rings, but even then generally it will still work, you just get to listen to a compressor run..

if you have the money and want to be FULLY LOCKED go ARB front and rear, if your funds are a hair limited do a Detroit rear with a true trac limited slip up front... that probably one of the most common rover set ups...







My .02
__________________
project whore!

95 RRC LWB-- DD
97 D90 37 " krawlers, coilovers, beadlocks, stretched
05 LR3 - Mamas/ tow rig


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Moab rally vids 2010
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old November 18th, 2010, 10:46 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Having had all three, what I can say is that any locker or limited slip >>>>>> nothing.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 18th, 2010, 11:39 PM
Joe P's Avatar
Joe P
Status: Offline
Joe Pfeiffer
Black 97 D-90ST #0605
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 748
Although I have ARB's front and rear I know a lot of people who swear by a Detroit in the rear and an ARB in the front.

just a thought
__________________
If the truck makes it - the trail wasn't tough enough.
If the truck doesn't make it - the truck wasn't tough enough.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 18th, 2010, 11:46 PM
ajh
Status: Offline
Andrew J. Hutton
1993 Defender 110 200TDI
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 735
and a Detroit is an auto-unlocker not an auto-locker.
__________________
--

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Parts & Accessories Imported Weekly

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Like us on Facebook for a discount on parts!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Handmade Soap ideal for Mechanics!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 19th, 2010, 09:01 AM
KevinNY's Avatar
KevinNY
Status: Offline
Kevin Buckley
1973 coiler
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Guilderland,NY
Posts: 1,460
I think if I lived somewhere where the wheeling was mostly dry and rocky I'd be perfectly happy with a Detroit rear and ARB front, but I don't. For the snow and mud in the NE a Detroit can be a real liability sometimes on the road and on sideslopes.
__________________
'73 SeriesIII coiler,"The Goat", Daihatsu 2.8TD,Santana,Ashcroft,ARB's,etc., now SOLD
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 19th, 2010, 09:26 AM
sflash868's Avatar
sflash868
Status: Offline
Stephan Laputka
1995 D-90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 972
Don't have much experience with anything other than ARBs but I personally like to know when something is on or off. I don't really like anything that's automatic. ARBs customer support is great too. I had this weird thing happen to me on my way to Moab (of course). I was in Kansas on I70 and started smelling gear oil. Got out, couldn't find a thing. everything was dry. Drove further and the smell was really strong. Long story short, that round piece in the locker where the brass air line connects to the physical diff and come loose and wiggled, causing it to get these spherical grooves in it which when it rotated acted like an impeller pump. The locker pumped all the diff oil out of the diff, up through the air line and out the compressor which was conveniently located under the passenger seat. Sweet clean up that was.

Called ARB about it. Guy new what the problem had to be. Sent me a new part for free to the La Quinta in Moab and then informed me that they originally designed the locker to be hydraulic and I would still use it with oil in the air line. Went wheeling the next day and it worked perfectly even with the air line barfing diff oil
__________________
Land Rovers are by far the best looking 4x4 on the back of a flatbed...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 19th, 2010, 11:32 AM
Manimal's Avatar
Manimal
Status: Offline
Carl Jonsson
1995 NAS D90 #219
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,236
How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY View Post
For the snow and mud in the NE a Detroit can be a real liability sometimes on the road and on sideslopes.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 19th, 2010, 11:34 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
How so?
Back end slides down the hill.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old November 19th, 2010, 01:37 PM
Chaucer
Status: Offline
Will
93 110 | 97 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: WA
Posts: 583
What about other lockers that are electrically or manually actuated? How well do these work compared to an ARB? Seems like they'd be nice to have be simpler systems (maybe)? No need for an air compressor, etc. Anyone have experience with these?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old November 19th, 2010, 02:17 PM
genie90's Avatar
genie90
Status: Offline
Jay Geaney
1994 D-90 ST #282
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR, USA
Posts: 814
I've had the following setups on my rig ('94 ST) since 1998:

1. Detroit rear, Truetrac front- better than stock, but had to be careful in CO during the winter while feathering the gas around corners, or else the rear would lock and slide. Truetrac was decent, but I found it essentially useless when doind serious offroading (wheel in air=wheel spinning).

2. Detroit rear, ARB front- ARB much better for offroad up front, still had to be able to withstand the awful sound a detroit makes when it unloads, and replacing my detroit(under warranty) after I broke a stock axle in Moab (locker wouldn't unlock)

3. ARB front and rear- so far in my opinion the best mix for on-road and mild to difficult offroading.

As you can see, the changes were made incrementally(as funds were available).

I think someone on the board back in the early 2000's had a Macnamara diff lock(vacuum I think), but I can't seem to remember who...
If you are looking to go extreme then you have to start thinking about differential upgrades/welding diffs/or even portal axles. But those are a whole different animal, one I'm not looking for!
Hope this Helps

Regards,
Jay
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old November 19th, 2010, 02:30 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
search kaiser for another alternative...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old November 19th, 2010, 04:39 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY View Post
For the snow and mud in the NE a Detroit can be a real liability sometimes on the road and on sideslopes.
All right, here we go....

Have YOU actually driven a 90 with a Detroit in the snow?

I have a 90 with a Detroit. I've have had the Detroit for years. I live in Canada. It snows here. I wheel on pure ice. Nothing weird has ever happened. Right now you could put on your skates and play hockey on some of the roads around here. How am I able to just drive around like normal? Well actually it is not "normal" as I drive by every stuck spinning tires person in the city without the slightest problem.

------ Follow up post added November 19th, 2010 02:43 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaucer View Post
What about other lockers that are electrically or manually actuated? How well do these work compared to an ARB? Seems like they'd be nice to have be simpler systems (maybe)? No need for an air compressor, etc. Anyone have experience with these?
I personally would go with KAM. Same price as an ARB. Better design.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old November 19th, 2010, 06:26 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaucer View Post
What about other lockers that are electrically or manually actuated? How well do these work compared to an ARB? Seems like they'd be nice to have be simpler systems (maybe)? No need for an air compressor, etc. Anyone have experience with these?
For about the same price as an ARB setup you could go Toy ELocker conversion in the rear. It's a little more involved than popping in and out a 3rd but if you find a spare axle housing might be the same amount of work.

I have all the pieces in my shop waiting to go together but I've been at a standstill due to many other household/business projects.

------ Follow up post added November 19th, 2010 06:33 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
All right, here we go....

Have YOU actually driven a 90 with a Detroit in the snow?

I have a 90 with a Detroit. I've have had the Detroit for years. I live in Canada. It snows here. I wheel on pure ice. Nothing weird has ever happened. Right now you could put on your skates and play hockey on some of the roads around here. How am I able to just drive around like normal? Well actually it is not "normal" as I drive by every stuck spinning tires person in the city without the slightest problem.

------ Follow up post added November 19th, 2010 02:43 PM ------

I personally would go with KAM. Same price as an ARB. Better design.
As far as the Detroit and driving in snow, being a Canadian you might just have natural Jedi snow driving skills. I think you guys have those same skills playing hockey and driving sleds - just something you're born and raised with up there :D

Any time with the KAM? Once I get the Toy in the back of my 90 I know I'll want the front locked too and that might be cheaper/easier than a front TOY conversion.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old November 19th, 2010, 07:52 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
As far as the Detroit and driving in snow, being a Canadian you might just have natural Jedi snow driving skills. I think you guys have those same skills playing hockey and driving sleds - just something you're born and raised with up there.
Um no. Most people here can't drive to safe their lives. I drive lots of other vehicles so can tell if it behaves strangely. I also drove the 90 for years with an open diff. There was no change at all after the Detroit was in. I get no strange behaviour in any situations. You just drive up things you couldn't in the past and you get through thing that people with open diff cannot. No sliding sideways on off camber, no hanging out the back end, zip, nadda, nothing.... I keep waiting for it to kill me as "everyone" says it will. It just does nothing weird.

Personally, I think this whole Detroit being bad thing is from people that drove them in 2WD. In full time 4WD, I see no difference from when it was open.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old November 19th, 2010, 08:10 PM
bharris's Avatar
bharris
Status: Offline
Brad Harris
1994 d90 300tdi "Nola"
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 955
I loved my Detroit... hated the TT though...

and yes, drove her in the snow ...a lot... I'll admit to some rare oddities when it'd bind up and then pop out but that never happened in the snow. Theoretically I can see the desire to unlock completely and have an open rear but I never, ever had an issue with it...

If I wasn't doing a toy conversion for strength with e-lockers all around I would have stuck with the detroit and used a selectable in the front.
__________________
"well... we're not building a piano"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old November 19th, 2010, 08:14 PM
TexasD-90's Avatar
TexasD-90
Status: Offline
Martin Spencer
1994 D-90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Graford, TX, USA
Posts: 268
how does the detroit engage? if it has to do with traction loss, then are you more likely to break axles due to sudden engaging?
__________________
That is why it is called a short cut. If it was easy it would just be "the way."
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old November 19th, 2010, 08:49 PM
mightymg's Avatar
mightymg
Status: Offline
Lane Farka
97 D90, 05 LR3, 95 RRC LWB
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Clinton Ut
Posts: 744
With my experience with the Detroit on a lt-230 equipped truck, once the cdl is locked, my Detroit locked, as soon as i unlocked the cdl the Detroit would unlock... I ran a Detroit in the disco for 2 yrs then went toy guts and not looking back..
__________________
project whore!

95 RRC LWB-- DD
97 D90 37 " krawlers, coilovers, beadlocks, stretched
05 LR3 - Mamas/ tow rig


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Moab rally vids 2010
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old November 20th, 2010, 09:17 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasD-90 View Post
how does the detroit engage? if it has to do with traction loss, then are you more likely to break axles due to sudden engaging?
A Detroit is normally locked. It unlocks when you go around a corner.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Locker debate TexasD-90 Defender Technical Discussions 2 November 18th, 2010 08:31 PM
Arb Locker Tech Manual (.pdf) online, courtesy of ARB USA Cube II Misc. Chit-Chat 4 December 5th, 2006 04:28 PM
Air Locker problem sflash868 Defender Technical Discussions 1 May 9th, 2005 09:40 AM
Locker - Front or Rear bd90 Defender Technical Discussions 6 January 14th, 2004 09:22 PM
ARB locker TwisteD90 Defender Technical Discussions 2 December 2nd, 2003 11:26 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Copyright