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  #21  
Old February 15th, 2015, 02:33 PM
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Bill Adams
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There's an excellent viddy by explaining the reason why this happens.
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  #22  
Old February 15th, 2015, 08:19 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
There's an excellent viddy by Moss Motos explaining the reason why this happens.
Bill:

Thanks for posting this. It helps, but I'm still confused.

Currently, my LR only has 2 LED turn signals, both on the front (One on the left, one on the right). When I turn on the hazards, all 6 turn signals flash at the correct rate, but the brake/tail lights also flash. However, when I use just one set (left or right) they flash too fast, with the brake/tail light just barely flashing. I was lead to believe that with just one pair of LED lights, there would still be enough resistance (from the other 2 bulbs) that the relay would work fine. But it doesn't.

Note: The front marker lights and brake/tail lights are also LED.

My brake lights are flashing whenever the turn signals are on, but just barely (4 of the little LED cells). What I don't understand is why- since I thought the turn signals and brake lights are on separate circuits?

I have an adjustable relay for the LED bulbs, but I can't access the relay because I now have an Ashcroft console and it's inaccessible (without cutting/drilling/removing the console).

Questions;

-If I can access the relay & swap it for the adjustable unit, will that fix my problem, so I can fit the rear LED turn signals & have them work fine, and no more flashing from the brake/tail lights?

-Why are my tail lights flashing? Bad earth or do I need to add ballasts? If I need to add ballasts, do I need them on the front or rear?

I love my Land Rover, but every time I work on it, it ends up 1) taking a lot longer than expected, and 2) costing a lot more than expected. I can't put the old turn signals back in, because they went in the garbage. So now I'm stuck with rapidly flashing turn signals and brake lights that flash too. Brilliant, just brilliant.

Paul.
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  #23  
Old February 15th, 2015, 08:46 PM
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Craig
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Best guess Paul is you are dealing with "previous owner" expertise n wiring
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  #24  
Old February 15th, 2015, 09:01 PM
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I had similar issues putting LED lights in my 110. I just kept retracing the wires and seeing what I could do. I had a loose ground that was affecting the brake lights. I also had a loose wire in the license plate light that was affecting the other lights. Finally, I had a similar flashing problem and traced it to a burnt out bulb in the side marker which I doubt I would have figured out on my own except for a post in one of the many LED wiring threads on this board. My guess is that your LED side marker lights may be causing a problem.
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  #25  
Old February 15th, 2015, 09:06 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Best guess Paul is you are dealing with "previous owner" expertise n wiring
Could well be. There are wires running all over this thing. I might re-wire the whole rig when I put a new chassis/bulkhead under it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjpin View Post
I had similar issues putting LED lights in my 110. I just kept retracing the wires and seeing what I could do. I had a loose ground that was affecting the brake lights. I also had a loose wire in the license plate light that was affecting the other lights. Finally, I had a similar flashing problem and traced it to a burnt out bulb in the side marker which I doubt I would have figured out on my own except for a post in one of the many LED wiring threads on this board. My guess is that your LED side marker lights may be causing a problem.
I'm going to have my mechanic look at it. At this rate I'm likely to throw a match in the tank & walk away!
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  #26  
Old February 16th, 2015, 12:04 AM
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Ryan Phelps
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You do not need a ballast the only thing connecting the turn indicators to the brake/running light is the ground. If the ground is insufficient the power will flow through the easiest path (just like water) did you upgrade the side repeaters to led? If so remove the dash indicator bulb. (You may just try this anyway) Next are you sure the ground at the right rear harness for lighting is good? This ground left disconnected can cause a similar issue.

With one bulb replaced by led you should expect a fast blink rate unless you have an electronic relay.
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  #27  
Old February 16th, 2015, 12:39 PM
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I went the lazy route and got led replacement bulbs from superbrightled.com.
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  #28  
Old February 16th, 2015, 01:29 PM
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Maybe our trucks are wired differently (I have a NAS D110) but I just installed LEDs all around and had similar issues where there was sympathetic blinking of other lights when i turned on turn signals. This happened even after I updated the flasher relay to the correct one for LEDs. I had to install a load resistor in the front left and front right turn signal circuits and this fixed the issue. The excellent video posted above explains why this is - if you turn left signal on there is still a small current drawn thru the right side circuit looking for ground from the indicator light. This is a non-issue with regular bulbs is its not enough to light the bulb - but the LEDs operate at much lower current draw so that 'leaked' current is enough to light up the other bulbs (they are dimmer than the other side that is being activated but light up nonetheless). So the load resistor provides that path to ground that allows that 'leaked' current to bypass the other side lights and issue resolved.

There may be other ways or systems to effect the same result. But this is what worked for me. I have LEDs on all side markers, turn signals, brake lights, headlights, etc.... and they now all work correctly with both the updated relay and the load resistors across both front turn signal circuits.

AndrewT
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  #29  
Old February 16th, 2015, 02:27 PM
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Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=59120
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I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
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  #30  
Old February 16th, 2015, 09:18 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Update:

I swapped the relay over. Had to pull the Ashcroft console out but that wasn't as much of a PITA as I expected. I also swapped the fender turn signals for LEDs and swapped out the rear turn signals for LED also. I'm now 98% LED on the outside of the truck (only non-LED is the license plate light).

Turn signals now flash at the correct rate BUT only when there are no other lights on. As I brake for an intersection with the turn signals already on, the blinking rate changes. I am also getting 'sympathy' blinking from the brake lights and the opposite blinkers. So the theory that I have a bad ground seems well founded. I'm going to drive it like it is for a while, and maybe get it checked if I have the rig in a town where there's a LR mechanic.

I appreciate the helpful comments and PMs.

Paul.
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  #31  
Old February 17th, 2015, 10:49 AM
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If you had a bad ground - that would have manifested itself in your lights before LED upgrade (unless your rewiring was the cause of the ground issue). Yes - LEDs are more sensitive but a bad ground can cause these issues with regular bulbs so you would have seen it before most likely. Did you have similar lighting issues before the LED install?

if the issues are specific to after the LED upgrade and you only spliced in the LED wires and didn't change anything else - than not sure I would trace down a bad ground as place to start.

I forgot - did you put in the load resistors? Less than $10 in parts and maybe 20 mins to install and can be bought at autozone or advanced auto - I think I even saw some at Walmart as well.

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  #32  
Old February 17th, 2015, 10:57 AM
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Put load resistors in the front. Usually no need in the rear. Covered in most of the other LED woes threads.
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I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
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  #33  
Old February 17th, 2015, 09:25 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Put load resistors in the front. Usually no need in the rear. Covered in most of the other LED woes threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesandjes View Post
If you had a bad ground - that would have manifested itself in your lights before LED upgrade (unless your rewiring was the cause of the ground issue). Yes - LEDs are more sensitive but a bad ground can cause these issues with regular bulbs so you would have seen it before most likely. Did you have similar lighting issues before the LED install?

if the issues are specific to after the LED upgrade and you only spliced in the LED wires and didn't change anything else - than not sure I would trace down a bad ground as place to start.

I forgot - did you put in the load resistors? Less than $10 in parts and maybe 20 mins to install and can be bought at autozone or advanced auto - I think I even saw some at Walmart as well.

AndrewT
All:

I actually ordered a WIPAC load resistor a few days ago, but they're back ordered. I'm going to check the rear grounds when I have time per Brian's advice, and will install the WIPAC stuff when it arrives.

Thanks,

Paul.
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Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
Past fleet: '89 Classic Mini, '83 Porsche 911 SC Coupe, '89 911 Carrera targa, '96 911 Carrera 4, '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser, several Minis.
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  #34  
Old February 17th, 2015, 09:41 PM
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Load resistors defeat the low current consumption advantage of LEDs.
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