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  #1  
Old August 1st, 2010, 02:05 PM
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Michael Ullman
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leaking around wheels / hubs

I am thinking of changing the name of my 90 from Tetanus to Depends she is leaking pretty bad right now.

Both of the front hubs are leaking althought the one on the Passenger side is really bad and the one on the Drivers side rear is leaking all over the brakes. I need to get this taken care of.

I have been doing a search on the forum and have made myself fairly confused. It sounds like Barry had the same problems although his pictures are no longer avaible and I am not sure what to use and where. So here are my questions.

1. Is this kit for both the front and rear? And is it all I need to get?
http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-5...scovery-i.aspx

2. Should I drain the resevoirs on the front hubs and replace with One Shot? I figure I can't just replace with One Shot, but need to redo the seal, as I need to not only keep oil/grease in but water out.

3. Don't use the paper gasket but use permatex 51813 Instead? But I still need to replace the rubber hub seal?

I know I need to check the breather tubes. And now that I thnk about all this started happening sometime after SCARR where it was extreamly muddy.

Also the leaking stops on the rear and front drivers side after I stop driving and it cools down. the one on the front passanger side just started to drip constantly.

This is all made more diffucult for me right now as the repair manual that I have from Heritage on disk does not want to work on my computer.

Any help appericated, smart ass comments enjoyed,
Michael
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  #2  
Old August 1st, 2010, 03:22 PM
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Chris Snyder
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The leak in the front looks like it's coming from the swivel seal. That whole front CV assembly is full of gear oil and it's common for them to leak. You can replace them (the seals), or fill them with grease.

The only reason, really, to not fill the CV's with grease is if you do a lot of wheeling. If there's any water ingress into the CV's with grease, it's very difficult to get that water out. Whereas with oil, it can be flushed out. If the truck doesn't do any wheeling I'd just go with the swivel grease and the leak will disappear.

The rear leak looks like the stub axle seal. That's the only seal holding the gear oil in the axle housing out of the hub. You'll need the kit you linked to as well as a stub axle oil seal. I'm not sure on the part number of it.

------ Follow up post added August 1st, 2010 03:27 PM ------

I think this is the one: http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-3...dle-wabs-.aspx

I can't remember which I ordered last time. I just found that one during a quick perusal of the RN sit. I'm sure someone will chime in with confirmation.

------ Follow up post added August 1st, 2010 03:29 PM ------

Last one. I forgot the grease.

http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-6...tec-375cc.aspx
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Old August 1st, 2010, 05:25 PM
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I'd use the RTC 3511 seals instead of the one in that kit. The other potential leak point for gear oil is the junction of the stub axle and the axle housing, it's a cheap paper gasket but neccessary and easy to do if you already have the hubs off. Wipe off the bottom of the swivels and seals and take a short drive to see if it's the swivel seal, which I suspect it isn't. On the bright side, you probably are due for a bearing inspection and repack anyway. I'd call Eric @ X231 at AB in the morning
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  #4  
Old August 1st, 2010, 06:28 PM
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First thing you need to do is remove the breathers lines and blow them out and clean out the bit screwed into the axle case and see if it gets better or clears up.

Next thing you need to do is make sure your wheel bearings are tight. If they are not, the hubs will leak.

Finally, you need to make sure you have land rover gease and not 90wt (or watered down 90wt) in your swivel balls.

Only once you check those three should you start replacing parts.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 07:06 PM
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Hey Michael,

First off, I'm sorry I couldn't hang out longer when you guys stopped by yesterday. Fighting with those sliders all morning in the heat took it out of me.

I'm in agreement with Chris that you have a stub axle seal leak in the rear. Also agree with Kevin that the RTC 3511 seals are the way to go.

Changing seals and bearings is not hard to do at all. It took me only a couple of evenings to get it done. I would get the seal kit from AB that includes everything to do the hubs, plus I would pick up some RTC 3511s. You can do the swivel ball seals at the same time. It's a little bit more work (not much) but it's worth it. While you're in there, inspect the swivel balls. If the chrome on the swivel ball is pitted like one of mine was, consider ordering a new swivel ball or you might have continue to have leaks in the future.

You'll need a couple of other things, if you don't already have them:

universal bearing packer
grease gun
brass drift
Mobil1 synthetic grease
a few rolls of those blue shop paper towels
lots and lots of brake parts cleaner. I think I went through at least 10 cans!

I went to NAPA and picked up some SKF wheel bearings like these ones. When I reinstalled, I used this guy's method to seat the bearings. I did not use a torque wrench. It seems to have worked well. He also has good instructions for the RTC 3511 seal installation.

Before putting it all back together, I cleaned everything to operating room standards. When I was installing the bearings, I put globs of grease in the space between the races. You can never have too much grease in there.

I also installed heavy duty axles, TruTrac+Detroit locker, DBA brake rotors, and flushed my brake fluid while I was in there.

Give me a call if you get stuck.

Chris

------ Follow up post added August 1st, 2010 04:07 PM ------

One last thing: the Workshop Service Manual for the 94 D90 was not very descriptive for this operation. Instead, I used the Disco 1 service manual (same stuff) and it did a better job of explaining the procedure.
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  #6  
Old August 1st, 2010, 07:19 PM
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Michael Ullman
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[QUOTE=evilfij;233892]
Next thing you need to do is make sure your wheel bearings are tight. If they are not, the hubs will leak.

QUOTE]

Please excuse my stupidity but how do I check if the wheel bearings are tight?

------ Follow up post added August 1st, 2010 07:58 PM ------

Chris, no worries, it was obvious that you were pretty spent by the time I got down there. Thanks for the gaurds.

All, thanks for the info, I went out and blew out the breather tubes. HMMM just relized that I did not take out the nut that the tube goes to need to go do that. Anyway I think the rear one was a little clogged as it sounded like it spit something out when I blew air into it. So we will see if that clears up the leak.

Front was clear.

I know that I have 90 wt in the swivel balls as I have put some in there. So I can drain that out and put grease in there. I do wheel it a bit and have gotten into some water with it but don't expect to often. So as it is now I would assume that I could get some water in there since oil can get out. Just drain it if I do?

Thanks again for the help,
Michael
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Old August 1st, 2010, 09:44 PM
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Jack up the wheel, grab at 12 and 6 and shake. Grab at 3 and 9 and shake.

If it wobbles at all, they are loose.

To eliminate water, let the truck sit for a few days or more and drain, the water will seperate and be on the bottom (oil or grease floats). You have to let it sit for a while as otherwise it is just milky oil. I would not change swivel ball seals unless they don't hold land rover swivel grease. In my experience, if the breathers are clear, no major leaks, and you don't park in water, the swivels stay pretty water free.

Based on the plugged breather in the rear, I would say better than 50/50 that was what caused that hub leak. Clean off the oil and see if you get more leaking or not.

Also, when you install the grease in the swivels, clean the mud and dirt off them as that gets under the seal and causes leaks too.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY View Post
Wipe off the bottom of the swivels and seals and take a short drive to see if it's the swivel seal, which I suspect it isn't.
Really, Kevin? Those marks down the tire is the tell-tale sign of swivel leak on all 3 of the trucks I've had .

But I agree, and should've mentioned, that you should clean all this up and see where the oil is actually coming from before you do anything.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 10:27 PM
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Yes but if it's the swivel the brakes would not be wet.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 10:33 PM
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Chris Snyder
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He doesn't have the dust guards installed.
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  #11  
Old August 1st, 2010, 10:42 PM
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and that has nothing to do with it. Oil is going to drip off the lowest point, the dust shield tab on the lower swivel, not "jump" outboard to the brake disc. I just had the same situation, drip on the inside of the tire, turned out to be a leak from the stub axle/swivel housing joint, so as I said, more investigation is needed.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 10:47 PM
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Wind. I screwed up a brand new set of pads with a leaking swivel seal and no dust guard. It would've saved them. Pretty much EVERYTHING is covered in those photos. It must've been leaking for quite some time (and miles).

Definitely clean that up and figure out where the oil is actually coming from.
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  #13  
Old August 3rd, 2010, 08:26 AM
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Michael Ullman
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Update

Okay, So last night I went in and cleaned the two wheels that are really leaking oil, rear drivers side and front passenger. I took the photos that I had and have put arrows where they are/were leaking.

REAR: It is leaking at the back see photo with arrow. I think this would be the stub axel seal. Also I jacked up the wheels and I can shake the the wheel so the bearing is loose. Do I need to get new bearings if this is the case. And are these the ones like Chris Snell suggested that I could get local?


FRONT: After cleaning it was not leaking this morning but I have not driven it. But before last nights cleaning it was dripping all the time. I have put a photo with an arrow showing where it was leaking. Swivel ball seal? This may clear up with grease?

Thanks again for you help,
Michael
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 10:40 AM
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Yes, that's your swivel seal. My personal preference is to fix the cause of the problem, i.e., replace the seal, rather than fix the symptom by using grease instead of gear lube.
Of course, if your swivel balls are pitted your only choice is probably switching to grease if you don't want to replace or repair the swivel balls.

If you don't have a bearing packer, you can use one of these to get the grease in the bearings:
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/s...ase-needle.jpg

When checking for bearings being loose, if you have more play holding the tire at 12 & 6 than you do at 9 & 3 then there's a good chance you have loose swivel pins, but you'll likely also be having death wobble as well.

Though unlikely, another thing to check is the bearing distance piece on the stub axle. They can get grooved by the hub seal and cause leaks. Unfortunately Rover, in their infinite wisdom, made them integral with the stub axle. On Series Rovers they could be replaced.

The hub bearings are really common, Timken SET37, SKF BR37 or FAG KIT38. You can usually find the Timken at your local chain cheapo parts store for about $15. PepBoys caries the BR37's for about the same price.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:54 PM
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Michael,

Bearings are so cheap that there's no point in not replacing them. The SKF BR37s work great and you can get them at any NAPA, though you may have to call around to find eight of them (if you are doing all four wheels). The universal bearing packer is also available at any NAPA and costs less than $10, if I recall.

Rebuilding the rear hubs is an easy, easy job. It's just very messy. I can email you the relevant pages from the D1 service manual.

A couple of pics from my rebuild:

In progress:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/defende...7623426852839/

All done:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/defende...7623426852839/
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  #16  
Old August 3rd, 2010, 03:19 PM
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If you're not in a hurry and putting in all 8 new bearings, I suggest looking online. For instance, AdvanceAutoparts.com carries the National A-37 for $14.98 and offer free shipping on orders over $75. I was just looking and see they're offering another 10% off if you order by 8-3. That will save you enough to pay for all your hub/axle seals and gaskets.
FWIW, I've used Timken, SKF, FAG and National hub bearings and can't tell any difference in them, both in workmanship and longevity.

BTW, if you want to just run the same gear lube in your hubs as in your diff and swivel housing (which a fair number of people do), leave out that inner sub axle seal.
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  #17  
Old August 10th, 2010, 08:34 AM
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thanks

Just wanded to say thanks for all the help. Got new bearings put in the rear wheel and a new seal kit. No leaks no wheel wobble. For now I just put One Shot in the front and it to has stopped leaking. Tried taking photos but camera card was full and I was not making a run to the store on three wheels. Had to make a big tent and all with a tarp and the 90 as the Texas heat would of been to much without some shade.
Thanks again,
Michael
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Old August 10th, 2010, 06:24 PM
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I suffer from repeated rear driver's side stub axle leak and it is due to a pitted rear axle stub axle. If yours continue to leak, check out the stub axle for sure. I picked up a good used one for $50. With new seals, they last about 4 months for me before they start to leak again. Just FYI.
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Old August 10th, 2010, 07:22 PM
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Awesome. That's the best part of working on the truck: getting the job done in miserable weather. When I did my bearings, it was during that big cold snap with the temps in the 20s.
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Old August 10th, 2010, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
Awesome. That's the best part of working on the truck: getting the job done in miserable weather. When I did my bearings, it was during that big cold snap with the temps in the 20s.
You just gotta love those brutal South Texas winters. It gets into the 20's for almost a week and we use it as a reference in time 9 months later. Sounds like you are up in Colorado. Mostly grew up there. I miss Colorado sometimes. Not so much during the winter though.
Michael
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