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  #1  
Old July 26th, 2006, 06:31 AM
TREX
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toby hunt
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Jet fuel

ok you blokes apparently you guys are the experts on all things landrover and the like, so after being referred to here multiple times i thought i would see what you guys know.

Ok what i'm chasing is infomation regarding running a td5 engine on Jeta1/avtur/jp5 whatever you want to call it, and what ratios and type of lubricant to run along with it. Yes that is aircraft/jet turbine fuel, and no i am not crazy, i know it can be done it just takes a bit of know how not to break your engine in the process. any help would be most appreciated.
cheers
trex
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  #2  
Old July 26th, 2006, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TREX
ok you blokes apparently you guys are the experts on all things landrover and the like, so after being referred to here multiple times i thought i would see what you guys know.

Ok what i'm chasing is infomation regarding running a td5 engine on Jeta1/avtur/jp5 whatever you want to call it, and what ratios and type of lubricant to run along with it. Yes that is aircraft/jet turbine fuel, and no i am not crazy, i know it can be done it just takes a bit of know how not to break your engine in the process. any help would be most appreciated.
cheers
trex

Hmm, I'm not sure that only altering the type of lubricant will help all that much. Indeed you'll have to make adjustments. I don't know the specific temperature that avgas burns but I'd be willing to bet that it's way too hot for the cylinders. I'd think you'd have to change them and the valves to a material with a high temp rating to avoid warping. This is just "off the cuff" so don't take it as a definitive answer.

Regards

DJ
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  #3  
Old July 26th, 2006, 02:54 PM
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Jet fuel and avgas are not the same thing. Jet fuel is like kerosene, avgas is high octane gas with some additives to keep it from "boiling" at altitude according to an old flight instructor.


Seems like not much would need to be changed to burn Jet A in a diesel?
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Old July 26th, 2006, 04:18 PM
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Actually, what you would want is JP-8, which is what the US Army uses in all its diesel vehicles. JP-5 might work, but I am honestly not sure about the long term issues with injector seals and such. I know that technically there are some modifications to make for optimal running, but I am not 100% what they are. The big ones I can think of are different filters and I believe a different heat range glow plug. But I have to ask why, because Jet-A is abusively expensive here in the US right now, about 60% higher than diesel.

Av-Gas in a gasoline vehicle is a BIG no-no. It's got massive amounts of lead, even 100LL is very high in lead compared to automotive gasoline. This will destroy your catalytic convertors in a matter of days.
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Old July 26th, 2006, 05:03 PM
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JP-8 is NOT the same as diesel and running it for any length of time in a vehicle not converted will do fun things like kill fuel pumps and cause overheating and seized engines due to under lubrication. I spent several years trying to make Land Rover and Toyota (Land Cruisers and Hilux trucks) keep running on US Mil JP-8. Basically we ended up adding several ounces of whatever grade of diesel engine oil we could get to every tank. Some folks I know in southern Africa have had to do much the same thing when fuel other than parafin becomes unavailable.
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Old July 26th, 2006, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffer
Jet fuel and avgas are not the same thing. Jet fuel is like kerosene, avgas is high octane gas with some additives to keep it from "boiling" at altitude according to an old flight instructor.
Really? That's go to know. This whole time I thought the two were the same thing!
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  #7  
Old July 26th, 2006, 06:11 PM
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Yes you can run it in your diesel truck, ive seen it done in an Isuzu for a couple years now, but the application it is used in is far less demanding than that of a daily driver. You will probably need to do some of the mixing that Etrier mentioned, i'm not sure.

JP-5 is used on aircraft carriers, i doubt you will have it readily available or cheap enough. I'm betting that youre not in the US, commercial Jet A here is slight different then the Jet A used world wide (i believe it has a higher flashpoint) I'm not sure how it would affect operation. JP-8 has more additives than Jet A for military applications, I'm not sure how differently a diesel engine would react. I'm not familiar with the td5 engine or with military fuels so my advice ends here.
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Old July 26th, 2006, 06:23 PM
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We used to have deuce and a half trucks that were "multi-fuel" capable. There was a little lever near the drivers seat that you would adjust depending on whether you would be running diesel (preferred), gasoline or one of the aviation fuels (forget which one, but think WWII era aircraft engines). I believe all the lever did was modify the ignition timing, but never really looked into the TM. Once we were low on fuel without diesel to be found, so filled up with gasoline and guestimated the correct amount of motor oil to add to the tank. Cruising up the highway I asked the co-driver whether he thought we had enough oil mixed with the mogas. He looked out the window at the exhaust stack and replied, "judging by the amount of flames coming out of the exhaust we probably should add at least another quart or two".

Abe
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Old July 26th, 2006, 06:25 PM
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I never really got much chance to look into the JP-8 situation. The Deuces were all multifuel, and no conversion kits existed for the CUCV's or our generators, so the few times my unit found ourselves on an active duty post we really had no choice. The Humvee's were JP-8 compatible when we got them. But for everything else, it was either put in the JP-8, or don't get fuel. I don't think any US Army post has had actual Diesel available in years for ground vehicle use. It's either JP-8 or MoGas.

-Hans
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Old July 26th, 2006, 07:08 PM
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Yeah, I dont know of anything anymore, including gensets, that runs on mogas. the whole reason for going to JP8 was to avoid having to carry multiple fuels around from a logistics standpoint. the turbines in the M1's need JP8, and everything else can run on it. i really dont know the tech specs of what was required to make all the diesels compatible. I'm not a manuever guy. JP8 is also much less volatile so its better than mogas for safety and security.
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  #11  
Old July 26th, 2006, 07:46 PM
TREX
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The fuel i want to use is definately jeta1 or avtur as it is called out here in australia and definately not avgas which is run in piston aircraft engines. The reason i want to use it is that i am in the middle of the australian desert and there are allot of aircraft around and i spend all day re-wiring them and fixing all there crazy instruments. However I have to defuel the things at least once a week (pilots seem to want the fuel gauges accurate) so there is 1100 litres of fuel at the miniumum alway sitting in the hanger, just waiting for me to pump into my car. I know from being around it that it is very similiar to diesel however bit more refined and designed for a turbine engine. But really i was thinking how hard can it be to just unrefine it by throwing in some oil. So filters, glowplugs, timing and oil hey? well anyone got any idea where else i could get some research on this stuff?
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  #12  
Old July 26th, 2006, 08:08 PM
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Maybe this will help ....

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...4152.Ch.r.html
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