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  #61  
Old January 6th, 2005, 06:07 PM
JohnC
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Giampaulo Cinquegrana
95 DI SR Extreme Kit - 94 RRC LWB
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So, forgive me for not speaking or reading Spanish, I didn't think we were in Miami....

Don't know what Miami has to do with this thread ..... anyway

That's $4100 U.S. ? Shipping ?

Yep, it's about 11,800 reais (brasilian currency). Shipping, I would guess by boat around U$S1 per pound.

I will call our customs broker tomorrow to see if the engine can be imported into the US. I will also send them an email and try to get a wholesale price, I might be able to get the engine for under 4k if I commit to a large quantity.

I guess you also need some sort of adapter or kit to mate the 2.8 to an R380, correct? Does anybody know what else is needed?


TIA,
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  #62  
Old January 6th, 2005, 06:39 PM
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Jim Cheney
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Here is what I discovered while doing my research on this motor, back when I had ordered one and planned on putting it in my truck.
Naturally, this information is worth what you're paying for it, so I
encourage you to do your own research before embarking.

1) Motor & Diesel Engineering (mdengineering.co.uk) sells a whole
bunch of kits. The only thing I have seen of their products was a
300Tdi to 2.8 TGV swap carried out on a Disco in the January and
Februart 2004 issues of Land Rover Owner International. It appears
to be a decent product, but the 300 to 2.8 is the easiest possible
conversion scenario.

2) Brit Rest (britrest.com) appears to be selling nothing more than
M&D kits shipped over from the UK. Their FAQ is a word-for-word
duplicate of the M&D FAQ. Or at least it was in August.

For a 300tdi to 2.8 Swap, here is the list of things I have found
not to be a direct swap:

1) Though the 300Tdi motor mounts will bolt right up to the 2.8, the
pass. side one will interfere with both the oil filter and and the
dip-stick. M&D solves this problem with an adapter than re-
positions the oil-filer 90 degrees, and a modified mount to
accomodate the dipstick. Gord at Fraser Valley Rovers solved this problem
with custom motor mounts.

2) The input shaft on an r380 needs a custom pilot (spigot for the
UK) bushing to mate with the crank and flywheel on the 2.8 TGV.
Everyone solves this with a custom-made bushing.

3) The 300Tdi exhaust exits the front of the turbo, the 2.8 TGV
exits the back, so this requires a custom exhaust fitting.

4) The intake horn on the 2.8 interferes with the hood on a
defender, and is simply in the wrong spot for a disco. Both require
a modification to the 2.8 intake horn.

5) Modifying the intake horn creates an issue with the placement of
almost all the plumbing on the driver's side of the engine. None of
the 300Tdi radiator plumbing is a direct fit anyway, but it all
becomes that much more crowded with the intake relocated.

I dont know anything about automatic transmissions, although i
understand there are elegant solutions to mate the 2.8 to LR
autoboxes.

Using my semi-educated guesstimation faculties, this is what would
be required to fit the 2.8 to a V8 Disco, Rangie, or Defender.

1) Cleverly designed custom motor mounts. Gord Land at Fraser
Valley Rovers did a neat piece of work using block holes further
forward than the 300tdi mounts. If someone did this piece of
development for each of the 3 above vehicles, I bet Steve Cahill
could sell a lot more engines.

2) Custom exhaust.

3) 300Tdi radiator with time spent deciphering the plumbing problems.

4) Clever intake path planning. I noticed that Discos have a filter
box that is very conveniently located to the 2.8's intake horn,
defenders not so, Rangies - i dont know.

4) Some wiring work to eliminate the engine ECU etc. The wiring to
the diesel should be wedge-simple since there is only a starter and
glow-plug timer to wire-in.

I've just spilled my entire brain's worth of knowledge on the topic,
so its unlikely I will be able to field any questions.

Cheers - Jim
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  #63  
Old January 6th, 2005, 09:27 PM
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Jason Herring
94 D90 ST #1253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
RDS brings in that stuff all the time. TD5 even has an EPA number. Just buy a rolling chassis from George and swap over. Dont tell him I sent you, he'll charge me extra.

I dont think that engine swapping will ever be a justifiable on anyone's cost-benefit analysis.
Ya know, when I talked to George about importing as I admired his TD double cab photos he got sortof squirly and didn't want to talk about it....

However, I think buying a rolling chassis would far exceed the high-end $10K cost of the 2.8 PS, so that's not an option. I was thinking of acquiring the engine - I'm in Europe a couple times a year & have contacts over there who might be willing to help... if TD5s are fairly common in wrecking yards, I might acquire one inexpensively..??

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
The big downside to the TD5s is that they REQUIRE programing from the Rover specific diag computer to run and to be checked. Difficult if you are in North America.
Can't you do this from a laptop with the right software and inteface? Doesn't the TD5 comply to the OBDII spec that is mandated here in the US? I had thought that might be an international standard...

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by norros
Jason,
YES! Please check if you can... I'm sure a lot of people on this board are wondering.

Oh, and sorry for the Spanish/Portugese mistake... I'm about as American as they come.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND PLEASE KEEP ME IN MIND.
-----------------
Yes TD5 means computah's... so does the 3.0 Powerstroke out soon... too many electronics.
Nicholas Orros
Computers? I like computers - their existance is how I am able to afford this eccentric 4x4 truck

If there is a company in Sao Paulo I can speak to, give me their contact information. If they are located elsewhere I could have a friend call them for me - my Portuguese is only good enough to talk to girls in bars
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  #64  
Old January 7th, 2005, 12:29 AM
artm
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Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
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MDE makes kits for 2.8/ZF, as well as 2.8/R380, but they only sell them with the motor - not separately.

I plan on doing the ZF conversion and here's the cost details I got from them in Nov 2004:

Kit 154, £4345 less 15% discount = £3693.25

Kit 82C, to adapt your V8 Disco transmission to the ZF, £530 less 25% = £397.50
(Note :- for late type flanged 4.0 converter)

151-15-01, HD radiator, £295 less 10% = £265.50

AC kit, compressor, brackets, pulleys and belt, £395 less 25% = £296.25

Diesel shift kit, £195 less 10% = £175.50

Export packing and shipping to Boston quayside, £195

TOTAL, £5023
---------------------------------------------------------------------

So, there's your $10K...plus the ZF and labor. Ouch!
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  #65  
Old January 7th, 2005, 02:29 AM
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Big Gord
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wow this is quite a thread..........yes i do have one.......i went from a 2.5 n/a deisel to the 2.8 Tgv Tdi.........if you have deep pockets....fill your boots......

Jim C..................i bet you would have loved it..........i do


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  #66  
Old January 7th, 2005, 08:25 AM
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norros
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Nicholas Orros
1995 NAS D90 SW
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Cool Beans...

TdiLurker,

Yes, it's getting to be quite a thread. Sometimes you have to 'rile' the beasts up to get any real information...

Jason,

Computers are a good thing eh ? Me too. Among many others on this board.

As far as George goes... he's got some nice stuff on roverporn.com ...lol. (Great guy, seriously) I don't think he really sells them though. Who knows for sure ?


JohnC,

Miami Yes... Don't worry, if you didn't get it, others did.
Thank you for the information. Now, didn't you say you had a link ?

JimC,

GREAT INFORMATION !!! You rule. Thanks man.


----

I love it when things get ripped open like this. I'm seriously thinking about this conversion, and am trying to get all my ducks in a row when the time comes. I got an email back from disco-tech.com yesterday and they said that they are no longer importing the 2.8 to the States because.. "Currently we are not shipping engines due to freight problems in Brazil. I will notify you if the situation changes."

Now, I'm not ready but am looking for someone once I get the engine to install the darn thing. Anyone recommend a shop/mechanic in the SouthEast ? I spoke to Jim Pendleton and he really seems like he knows what he's talking about... I'd have to ship the D to Kansas though, but if I gotta, I gotta.

If anyone knows someone who could do this install in the South East U.S.A. please chime in...

Regards,

Nicholas Orros
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  #67  
Old January 7th, 2005, 11:04 AM
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JimC
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Jim Cheney
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Yes, Pendy really knows what he's doing. The cost of driving, shipping, flying yourself and the Rover back and forth will be small compared to the conversion, so why not take it to someone who knows what they are doing?
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  #68  
Old January 8th, 2005, 11:00 AM
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jim pendleton
89'd90
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I just help you to make it run
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  #69  
Old January 11th, 2005, 09:21 PM
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norros
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Nicholas Orros
1995 NAS D90 SW
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'cuz I just can't let this one go...



Latest issue of LRE (February 2005) has an ad (1st I've seen) for the 2.8...

www.landrovermotor.com , it redirects you to a Holland website I believe and they have it for sale.
5000 Euro's ... ish

Who knows if they ship to the U.S. ?

I'll have to harrass them tomorrow.

Nicholas

UPDATE FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN THIS ENGINE:

Emailed them, the gentleman's name is Johan Ipenburg... they said the following:

Engine price Ä 4.750,=
shipping costs to your adress in Florida Ä 310,=

Engine includes, starter, alternator, PAS pump, Defender flywheel and housing,
glowplugs, vacuumpump and more. It comes with a complete manual (English)

Conditoins:
Prices : net,
Payment : before delivery
Delivery time : direct from stock
Warranty : 12 months or 50.000 KM



Real nice guy... The conversion comes out to(if I'm correct in thinking that he's talking about EURO's... I'm not 100% on that so if someone knows please CHIME IN..) : $6271.70+409.31


Total: $6711.11

Seems like a real price... who knows...




Nicholas Orros


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  #70  
Old April 2nd, 2005, 10:43 PM
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norros
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Nicholas Orros
1995 NAS D90 SW
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eBay store for 2.8...

yeah... Stephen Cahill just sent me an email for his (I'm guessing) eBay store for the powerstroke 2.8.

He said "...We will be keeping an Ebay store with engines and spare parts in it..."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ADME:B:EF:US:1

With gas prices being what they are, I really need to consider this engine.

N


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  #71  
Old April 3rd, 2005, 04:45 PM
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Big Gord
1971 IIA 88
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Just a little info for all....as the place i bought my engine from would not service this engine, i decide to see how hard it would be!!!!

Please take it for what its worth....if you are needing Spare parts for this engine.....I have now consumated my dealings with International Engine's in SA and have now received my first Factory order of Parts (OEM) to service all aspects of this platform....This includes Starters, Alternators, Water pumps, fuel and oil filters, injectors, glow plugs as well as timing components and Belts. I am now able to make factory orders for parts as required.

the network will grow, its only a matter of time.......then the morons can be weeded out

I have done this for very selfish reasons.....i wanted the engine and i wanted the parts to service it...now i have both.....Sometimes you "DO" have to 'rile' the beasts up to get any real information or action....

If your interested and i can help.....please contact me
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  #72  
Old April 4th, 2005, 10:50 AM
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norros
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Nicholas Orros
1995 NAS D90 SW
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Spoken like a TRUE KING !


You rule... Thanks for the info... I WILL be contacting you in the future, but not for a while...

I am in the midst of securing a wedding ring for my lady.

Just don't tell her!

haha.

Thank you again for the information.

Nicholas Orros
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  #73  
Old April 5th, 2005, 10:10 PM
OBW_Canada
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Stephen Cahill
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Hello to one and all
I must thank the 5 people that keep me abreast of what is going on in here.It is very nice to know you have friends out there that want to let you know when your good name is being slandered.

I hate having to defend my company and business practices in a forum but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
We should have a poll, here is what the question is. Should I setup buyers with factory accounts for spare parts? Or should I put together a up time kit at factory pricing that can be shipped with the engine, the cost of shipping is about 2 bucks a pound.I will accept your answer via Email.

It will be same contact information I gave the whiner BIG GORD so he could buy from the factory.

When got his engine the next day he wanted a collection of spare parts.I told him at this time the smallest order was 1500.00 USD plus 500.00 for shipping.He said well you buy it as I want 200.00 of parts.

I told him I was working on getting the alility to buy smaller orders.(We have to remember that International Engines only had worked with very large companies up to this time.) A change in management there allowed me to make smaller orders.
As those who follow the HS2800TDI usergroup you will know it was a year before he got the engine installed.
Yes his work is very good BUT some people work on time frames that are not measured in months.The boys in Europe buying the engine and the kit to convert a NAD 2.5 to 2.8 TGV do it at home in 2 days. THIS IS IN THE HOME GARAGE!!!!
This was to be his show piece to sell lots of engines to Western Canada (West of Ontario) and 5 or 6 states in the North West of the USA.
Would you believe that in an area that large in a year all he did was P)ss of people who wanted to buy the engine.(Remember I got the Email to prove it.)

As we all know the Jim C story, engines recalled shipments delayed,Jim had to get out of the sale.I did an advert for the engine to sell it for Jim. Got a buyer in the area that was to be BIG GORDS part of North America for Jim C, remember all I am doing is putting two people together to exchange funds for an engine. BIG GORD figured I should pay him a commision on this engine.

That was the last straw for me I pulled his distributorship.If you go back and look at his 11 posts you will see he is a very negitave person to people he does not know. I did not see in action until I met BIG GORD at the Land Rover auction in Alberta. If you do some detective work in the local British Columbia Land Rover community he does not like anyone.In two years of talking with him on the phone (MY nickle) I do not recall one good word he had for anyone that was involved with working on or selling Land Rovers.

With that I do not have to sell another diesel engine to the Land Rover owners in North America.I will and I will do my best to make the buyers as happy as clams at high tide. With the adaptation of the 2.8 TGV to the GM series of transmissions I have a market that is huge.

It is in your corner,go for quotes on spare parts I have them listed on the HS2800TDI usergroup.

Wishing one and all
the best of what they desire.

Stephen Cahill
OBW Canada LTD
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  #74  
Old April 6th, 2005, 03:01 AM
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Big Gord
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this response i kinda what i expected from you Cahill....the rantings of a very desperate man....not once did i use your name in any post.....you must be feeling real guilty about something....maybe its just the bad service you are trying to force on the North American buyer....just carry on the way your going the pleasure will be all mine...i don't need to say a word....you can keep on shooting yourself in your feet....people who want to purchase product, love to hear the rantings of a very pathetic man trying desperately to calm all the shit storms around him........when the biggest problem he faces......


stares back at him in the mirror .........................................
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  #75  
Old April 6th, 2005, 09:18 AM
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Chris von C
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I would like to ask that the discussion in this thread to continue more rationally. Its a good thread that is providing good info to others.

Gord/Stephan - I have seen this battle between the two of you over this engine issue before, although I cant recall which forum it was on (maybe Pirate4x4), but I have seen this ongoing somewhere else. Please do not turn a tech thread into a rehashed mud slinging feast. However, on this site, Gord has every right to post his feelings on his dealings with a Vendor if he feels others should be made aware of his experience, and Stephan, likewise, you have ever right to respond to someones postings about your company if you feel the need to. I ask that this kind of exchanges try to take place, again rationally if possible, in the Non-Tech section rather than taking over a good Tech thread.

Thanks guys!
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  #76  
Old April 6th, 2005, 09:56 AM
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David Marchand
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Tired of the back and forth...

Anyway, Nicholas. To continue on the original intent, the Holland guys will ship here. The problem you face will be acquiring all of the ancillaries to convert your truck to any tdi. Thus why those of us who have either done this or have thought of it, have selected one of two proven paths. Source all of the parts yourself (including new rad, pipes, intercooler, fuel pump, AC parts, engine mounts, bellhousing, etc., that are not included in your quoted prices), or buy a kit from someone like M&D in the UK that is no hassle and backs up their products with EXCELLENT support. I think the pricing your getting is only 3/4 of what you will pay in the end. Because you need to source the rest. How you do so is your choice (and the beauty of this thread).

You also need to take into account the wiring. As simple as it is, your best bet on a conversion is to use a tdi wiring harness. I elected to reuse my wiring (minus the ECU's), but soon found it was both time consuming and frustrating. It would have been worth the extra $$ up front to not spend 40+ hours rewiring the original harness. I'm too stubborn once I start on a path, and had to see it through.
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  #77  
Old April 6th, 2005, 09:04 PM
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jim pendleton
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I thought we were supossed to have a customer of Stephen's chime in here at some point with their explanation of the individual parts ordering process. That is what Stephen said a month or so ago.

I am aware of people to contact directly in Brazil to order parts for these engines. Maybe I can post a link here if the information is not going to be shared.

Nice to see the love between those two. Even if it bothers the rest of you.

As for me I tend to look out for myself. M&D is my choice.

JP

edna. valeriano@NAV-INTERNATIONAL.com.br

I believe that is a good contact person for spare parts. I do not think there is a minimum order either. But you do have to wire the money. And it is Fed EX delivery. Ask her if you can buy an engine direct also. Tell her you plan to use M&D to provide fitting parts. They do not want to be bothered with providing conversion parts.

By the time you buy parts, M&D would have been your best original option IMO. Plus M&D warantees what they sell, as well as provides conversion support. None of these others here will.
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  #78  
Old April 8th, 2005, 07:35 PM
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jim pendleton
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BTT Any replies?
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  #79  
Old April 11th, 2005, 09:07 PM
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Jason Herring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waveridin1959
The canadian company Disco-Tech industries is importing them. They don't have a price on their website. http://www.disco-tech.ca/engines/

and the International site is http://www.nav-international.com.br/...?Idioma=2&Id=5
They do have prices now:

$5500 engine complete w/ anciliaries
$7500 as above with fitting kit
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  #80  
Old April 11th, 2005, 10:40 PM
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David Shechter
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I called them about the engine a year ago, spoke to Chris... he confirmed the prices. I called back 2 weeks later to get some info, I was very serious about buying one. He told me the price was $9500. When I asked him why he told me $7500 2 weeks earlier he informed me that the currency rate has changed an that was what changed the price. I informed him that an increase of 30% due to currency exchange rate was ridiculous. I basically told him not to play games and got off the phone. I never trash anyone, but he is a ratís ass! If you want to buy the engine bite the bullet and get one from Motor and diesel. Everyone that I have spoken to agree this is the place to get it and David Jackson provides everything you need. I have one on order that will ship this month, David is understanding of the weak dollar and is giving a bit of a discount to me. I have spoken to him in the past about ordering more than one engine (someone else wanted one too) and he was going to increase the discount. I am going to pay for my engine this week, if anyone is interested in ordering with me and saving a few bucks let me know ASAP.
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