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  #21  
Old December 24th, 2004, 07:12 PM
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See here Frankerrover

110" WB
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300TDI tweaked.
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  #22  
Old December 24th, 2004, 09:47 PM
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That's a very cool truck, but I was thinking more of an expedition-type 110. Something that has to perform on-road as well as off. I think the small engines can be geared to work well offroad, but are they practical on the highway as well? I've put ~50K miles on my 110 in about 2 years so overall capability is really important. And all the miles is another reason I'd like to improve my fuel mileage even more (the 6.5 is getting 15-18 mpg).
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  #23  
Old December 24th, 2004, 09:47 PM
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Once you tweak a 300 it has enough power. I have 37's and run a full cage and a hardtop. It is faster off the line than any factory Rover V8. I can peel out on a dry street with all fours with this engine and the bigger tires. It can do 80 all day long but I don't like where it is revving at. I might switch t-cases. It is a good work horse and I can not complain about the 28mpg or the light weight for a Diesel. 2.8 would be better if it can be tweaked but I have more power now than a stock 2.8.
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  #24  
Old December 24th, 2004, 09:54 PM
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The canadian company Disco-Tech industries is importing them. They don't have a price on their website. http://www.disco-tech.ca/engines/

and the International site is http://www.nav-international.com.br/...?Idioma=2&Id=5
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  #25  
Old December 25th, 2004, 10:21 AM
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David Shechter
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Not to trash anyone, but about a year ago I spoke to Disco-tech about the engine, I think his name was Chris. There was a price on the web site and he confirmed it. When I was ready to order about 2 weeks later, everything changed about $2000 more. I asked around and was told he gets everything from M & D in the UK and that he wasn't very knowledgable about the install or kit. I have been in touch with M & D based on recomendations from people who had bought from them. They are very helpful, friendly and most of all knowledgable. Either you go the chepest route and buy from International and build your own kit over the course of a year + or do it the right way and buy from M & D and get everything in one shot. The last time I spoke to M & D, the pound was a bit softer and a complete kit with upgraded radiator, shipped was about $11,000.
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  #26  
Old December 25th, 2004, 01:28 PM
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Well,

I hope this doesn't trash anyone either but some skrew has to be loose to pay $11,000 for this motor. You could drive your truck over to a Diesel Specialist, throw them the keys and come back 2 weeks later and pick up your truck with a brand new Cummings Turbo Diesel all for $10,000. My 300 was a net $3000 total with the transmission, new clutch, and t-case and I would not pay more than 5k for everything. This motor is great, but not worth more than that. Lets do the math:

Tweaked 300TDi = 150 hp @ $3600 (motor and drivetrain, used new intercooler)
Stock 2.8 (might be able to tweak it) = 136 hp @ $5000 (motor only new)
Stock Cumming Turbo Diesel V8 = 350 hp @ $10,000 (new, installed)
Stock 2.8 (might be able to tweak it) = 136 hp @ $11,000 (motor only new - but people knowledgable)
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  #27  
Old December 25th, 2004, 10:21 PM
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Hans Haase
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Question...

Is the International 2.8 related in any way to the 2.8 Turbo Diesel that Jeep is putting into the 2005 Liberty? They are claiming around 160hp at 3800rpm and 295 lb/ft of torque at 1800rpm.

-Hans
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  #28  
Old December 25th, 2004, 11:09 PM
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Jim Cheney
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They are totally different - the Jeep 2.8 is a CRD engine and I think is Mercedes (Iveco?) derived. The international 2.8 is just an updated 300Tdi - in fact my 300Tdi crate motor came off the same assembly line and is clearly marked "Made by International."
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  #29  
Old December 26th, 2004, 02:58 AM
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jim pendleton
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I see a lot of misinformation here. But I don't feel like teaching class here.

JP

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada
That's a very cool truck, but I was thinking more of an expedition-type 110. Something that has to perform on-road as well as off. I think the small engines can be geared to work well offroad, but are they practical on the highway as well? I've put ~50K miles on my 110 in about 2 years so overall capability is really important. And all the miles is another reason I'd like to improve my fuel mileage even more (the 6.5 is getting 15-18 mpg).
Ryan you would not be happy with the 2.8 after running the GMC in your D110.

You need to tune a little more out of your engine. RPM, exhaust, gearing, custom ECU chip for the economy you seek. Try kennedydiesel.com and some of their links. I could see you getting 22-24 at best.

Bucky no V-8 cummins conversions I am aware of we could use.

Facts are more of these engines are making their way to the states. And it is a straight forward exchange. But it is not cheap and it will not make a D110 keep up with a 1ton domestic truck.

JP
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  #30  
Old December 26th, 2004, 12:52 PM
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"Bucky no V-8 cummins conversions I am aware of we could use."

I had it priced out at a company called Diesel Performance" in Santee California. $10,000 was the price with a new engine completely installed and a 30,000 mile warranty. It is not a kit but it can be done
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  #31  
Old December 26th, 2004, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
"Bucky no V-8 cummins conversions I am aware of we could use."

I had it priced out at a company called Diesel Performance" in Santee California. $10,000 was the price with a new engine completely installed and a 30,000 mile warranty. It is not a kit but it can be done
Any pictures of this V-8 cummins?
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  #32  
Old December 26th, 2004, 02:56 PM
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Nope, he just told me it wouldn't be all that difficult. He had never done one in a LR but sounded confident. I went running with my tail between my legs when I heard $10,000. V6 was available too if I can remember right. It was about 3 years ago.
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  #33  
Old December 26th, 2004, 05:21 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Well, that $10K for the Cummings can't include all the uprating needed on the rest of the truck, right?

If I can be at $10K for the 2.8 setup (with a used ZF) plus a $5K credit from the 300Tdi/R380, net $5K I'm there. Assuming we can believe the claims that performance is very clsoe to the V8 then I'm definitely there. My 97 D90 is plenty good pep-wise. Give me that in the 110 with much better mileage and it's a steal at $5K or so.

Perhaps I'm asking too much here...
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  #34  
Old December 26th, 2004, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Well, that $10K for the Cummings can't include all the uprating needed on the rest of the truck, right?

If I can be at $10K for the 2.8 setup (with a used ZF) plus a $5K credit from the 300Tdi/R380, net $5K I'm there. Assuming we can believe the claims that performance is very clsoe to the V8 then I'm definitely there. My 97 D90 is plenty good pep-wise. Give me that in the 110 with much better mileage and it's a steal at $5K or so.

Perhaps I'm asking too much here...
I'm not sure what you mean?? It was just the engine, installed and ready to drive. I imagine that the rest of the drivetrain would have trouble with that much power but that was never discussed. Still, if I were you I would not spend $5000 for 20 more HP when all you have to do is turn a skrew to get that out of your TDi. If your going to drop that kind of cash, swap out something that you can feel a difference with. I like the TDi but I got a good deal out of it and I needed a new engine, I had a 2.5N.A. which is downright painful to drive. It's up to you. You know that BCB will give you a turnkey 350 crate for under $10k??
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  #35  
Old December 26th, 2004, 10:18 PM
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V8 + Cummins = ?? They just do inline engines, don't they???????
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  #36  
Old December 26th, 2004, 10:41 PM
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David,

A 2.8 conversion runs about $10K, farmed out; that's the concensus. If I can get $5K out of my Tdi trade-in that puts me at $5K for a conversion that SHOULD be fine with the ZF.

I need that ZF and a 300Tdi in front of one just aint gonna cut it. I hope the 2.8 will but I need to confirm that. Forget about the 350 - need to save on fuel!

On a final note, I have an adaptor for the 700R4 to LT230. A better tranny all around and fits that 350! That was the route I was going to take but, like I said, fuel economy is priority now.
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  #37  
Old December 27th, 2004, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
V8 + Cummins = ?? They just do inline engines, don't they???????

They might, like I said, it was about 3 years ago and I don't know much about these engines at all. This is just the estimate that the Diesel shop gave me.

Art,

The 2.8 sounds like a really good engine. I just don't know if I would spend $5000 for 20 HP. That's a ton of money. Why not just throw in an intercooler and tweak the fuel and save $4,600. Or if you do it, throw a powerful Diesel in there that moves the truck so the $5000 is a worthwile investment. Like the Cummings, he also offered a PowerStroke Conversion for the same price. Or if you are totally set on the 2.8, why not buy Pendy's turbo if he still has it on sale and save some money and get just about the same engine. If I had the money, I would have gone for more power, the TDi is great for off the line but leaves a lot to be desired at 75mph, way too wined up. I have about 150 hp coming from mine which is more than the 2.8. But, I imagine the 2.8 can be cranked more than the tdi.

P.S. For $500 you could inject propane in your TDi and get great gas milage and a good power boost. That would give you everything you want for a ton less.
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  #38  
Old December 27th, 2004, 12:56 AM
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David,

The benefit is more than 20HP - across the board. If we compare untweaked motors, sur eit's only 20HP or so but at least it comes below the max rpm of the motor. I don't know if running the Tdi at 4000rpm is wise just to get the max Hp out of it.

Of course, the torque difference is more than 80 ft lbs and at a lower rpm.

Now, a tweaked Tdi can be good but 150HP? That must be an extreme level. What rpm and boost do you run to get that? I'd hate to have the belt go running it high all day. Sure, I can now do an easy 75mph but I try not to. I would be safer with a mildly tweaked 2.8 putting out the same 150HP.

The 2.8 is better designed: better turbo, forged crank, better block and head gasket. I also think for an application with an auto tranny it's my only hope.

I hope to take a look at Dave Marchand's 2.8 in his 97 D90 before commiting to the project. From all I hear the 2.8 is as good as the V8. Assuming that's valid in a ZF setup I am there.
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  #39  
Old December 27th, 2004, 03:33 AM
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You don't have to run a high RPM to get the HP. Just high boost and fuel. About 17 lb's. It is fine like that as long as you keep the EGT's down. Sometimes that means slowing down on the hills. TDi's run fine with an auto. There is a guy on Pirate with an auto in a 110 and loves it. It is only 20 hp. I am sure you are right with the 80lbs of torque but for $5000? I run my engine at 70mph at 3,200 rpm. I plan to switch to a 1.2 t-case and get my cruising RPM to about 2,900. I am sure a 2.8 is as good as a V8 but the Rover V8's arn't very good, plus you just spent 10,000 dollars to get you back to the V8 power you once had. That is a whole crap load of gas. It's your money and the 2.8 seems like an awesome engine. My whole point is if you can have 300hp for the same price you are spending on 150, or you can have 150 hp for free, why not? Anyway, it's your call. Good luck.
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  #40  
Old December 27th, 2004, 08:39 AM
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David, what ring and pinion gears do you have?

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