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  #41  
Old January 18th, 2014, 05:10 PM
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Sam Odio
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Okay, tried to start the car today and it started, but ran rough. I then turned it off and did the following:

* took off the K&N & removed any excess oil (there wasn't a ton)
* cleaned the MAF
* took off the idle control valve (and the housing that attaches it to the engine) and cleaned it. I didn't separate the valve from the housing when I cleaned it (not sure if I should've).
* cleaned the valve at the air intake that is connected to the idle control valve by a hose of some sort

Now the vehicle won't start at all. Next is the VSS and spark plugs / distributor I guess. What is the stepper motor people are talking of replacing?
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  #42  
Old January 18th, 2014, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sro View Post
Okay, tried to start the car today and it started, but ran rough. I then turned it off and did the following: * took off the K&N & removed any excess oil (there wasn't a ton) * cleaned the MAF * took off the idle control valve (and the housing that attaches it to the engine) and cleaned it. I didn't separate the valve from the housing when I cleaned it (not sure if I should've). * cleaned the valve at the air intake that is connected to the idle control valve by a hose of some sort Now the vehicle won't start at all. Next is the VSS and spark plugs / distributor I guess. What is the stepper motor people are talking of replacing?
stepper motor is the idle control valve.

After all this did it still exhibit problems?
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  #43  
Old January 18th, 2014, 10:37 PM
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Unplug the MAF and try starting it.

Try starting it with the throttle open.
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  #44  
Old January 19th, 2014, 03:49 AM
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Sam Odio
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leastonce - yes after doing all of the above I still wasn't able to start the truck.
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  #45  
Old January 19th, 2014, 08:20 AM
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As Ron said, try starting it with the peddle held to the floor. Should it start (thinking it will) can you hold just enough peddle to keep it idling? Then, after 5 minutes or so until the engine is at normal temp, does the idle problem go away or lessen?
If yes to all three, change the stepper motor. No about of cleaning will correct a bad one. They can look new and still be bad. Shoot, they can be NIB and still be bad. Cheap (~$25) and simple to replace (5 minutes).
After changing the stepper, it still takes a couple of short drives to get it and the ECU calibrated to each other until the truck starts cold or hot and idles normally. Others may disagree, but that was my experiance.
Also, don't work on multiple systems concurrently. Troubleshoot by working on one at a time. Keep notes of each step (photos of the particular widget in question works for me).
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  #46  
Old January 19th, 2014, 08:27 AM
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Russell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sro View Post
What is the stepper motor people are talking of replacing?
This is the stepper motor. Mine is a used Lucas OEM stepper that works better than the new big box stepper that was in there prior. That one I keep in the cubby for a spare (along with a fuel pump relay).
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  #47  
Old January 19th, 2014, 02:02 PM
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Sam Odio
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Okay, I tried starting it with the throttle completely open (pedal to the floor) and without giving it any gas. Behavior was the same:

The motor would turn over, occasionally it'd sound like it was about to start (with RPMS spiking to maybe 300-400) and then it'd return to turning over. This would all happen very quickly (within maybe 0.5-1 seconds).

Therefore if I try to start it for 4 seconds there would be several times when it would sound like there's combustion & it's going to start.

Once it did start, ran at about 400 RPMs for about 3 seconds, and then stalled out (despite full throttle). Unplugging the MAF also didn't do anything.

Ugh. Any other suggestions? I could just replace the stepper motor just to see.
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  #48  
Old January 19th, 2014, 03:08 PM
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Sounds flooded.
Are you: 1) holding the gas to the floor and cranking until it starts ( it could take 5 seconds or so - look up that cold start ECU EPROM recall(?) issue from long time ago). 2) Back off the gas to a light peddle or so just to keep it running until it warms up (5 minutes).
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  #49  
Old January 19th, 2014, 03:38 PM
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Sam Odio
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It just sat for 90 mins. I tried to start it for about 15 seconds with my foot all the way to the floor. Behavior is the same as above:

"The motor would turn over, occasionally it'd sound like it was about to start (with RPMS spiking to maybe 300-400) and then it'd return to turning over. This would all happen very quickly (within maybe 0.5-1 seconds). "
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  #50  
Old January 19th, 2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sro View Post
It just sat for 90 mins. I tried to start it for about 15 seconds with my foot all the way to the floor. Behavior is the same as above: "The motor would turn over, occasionally it'd sound like it was about to start (with RPMS spiking to maybe 300-400) and then it'd return to turning over. This would all happen very quickly (within maybe 0.5-1 seconds). "
A few trucks have exhibited this behavior. On mine I've cleared it using my ecumate to force the fuel pump on. Others have had less success with this method.

When you turn the ignition key to position 2 the fuel pump relay should click on and prime the fuel rail for a second or so. When the truck fires the ecu should get a signal from the coil and turn the pump back on.

Have you checked for a good strong spark?
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  #51  
Old January 20th, 2014, 04:08 PM
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Sam Odio
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Hm, I do think it might be a fuel pump issue. I unplugged what I believe to be the fuel delivery line (rubber line that goes into the engine right beneath the stepper motor) and tried to start the vehicle to see if any fuel would come out. It was completely dry.

I might also try removing the other fuel line (requires a wrench) in the off change that the one I unplugged is the fuel return line.

After that I'm going to try diagnosing the fuel pump relay to see if there's an issue there.
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  #52  
Old January 20th, 2014, 04:21 PM
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Sam Odio
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Okay, I took off the lower of the two lines (the one with a metal fitting) and can confirm the fuel pump is working. Turned the ignition on and the bottle I had redirected the line into quickly filled up.

So I know it's not a fuel delivery issue...
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  #53  
Old January 20th, 2014, 04:28 PM
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Yes, the first line is vacuum for the fuel pressure regulator.
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  #54  
Old January 20th, 2014, 04:29 PM
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Sam Odio
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Here's a dropbox link to download the audio of what the defender sounds like when I try to start it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qb38kugtam4p43w/Memo.m4a (this was on the first attempt after it's been sitting for a day).

I'm thinking I might just head over to O'Reillys and get a new stepper motor since that's been a problem for others in the off chance that's what is causing my issue...
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  #55  
Old January 20th, 2014, 04:51 PM
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Okay another update: Checking for spark this time...I checked the distributor cap and the leads were pretty corroded (perhaps from my time in a muddy salt flat). I scraped off the corrosion and applied dielectric grease but no dice.

When starting smoke comes out of the tailpipe so I know there some fuel and some spark, but it just doesn't seem to get close to holding an idle.
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  #56  
Old January 20th, 2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sro View Post
Okay another update: Checking for spark this time...I checked the distributor cap and the leads were pretty corroded (perhaps from my time in a muddy salt flat). I scraped off the corrosion and applied dielectric grease but no dice. When starting smoke comes out of the tailpipe so I know there some fuel and some spark, but it just doesn't seem to get close to holding an idle.
Check for air hose leaks ...
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #57  
Old January 20th, 2014, 05:53 PM
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Okay, will do. Already inspected the intake hoses & haven't found any leaks. Any suggestions on places to check?

Also, headed to the junk yard to pick up another stepper motor. They have a 92 range rover and a 97 discovery. Hopefully one of them has a compatible module. Anything else I should pick up so that I can swap it in? I'll probably also see if I can grab a distributor cap since there was corrosion on mine...
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  #58  
Old January 20th, 2014, 06:08 PM
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Russell
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Sam,
Six months ago you posted these same stalling issues. Most/many suggest replacing the stepper motor then as they are doing now in your second thread. Yet to this day it appears you haven't changed it out. Ironic as this is probably the cheapest and simplest part on the car and many times corrects the very issue(s) you are describing. Even your own post 6 months ago said it was throwing codes that pointed to the stepper motor: http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...4&postcount=15
Now you are about to replace it with a junk yard pull? Inquiring minds would like to understand your thought process.
Good luck.
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  #59  
Old January 20th, 2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sro View Post
Okay, will do. Already inspected the intake hoses & haven't found any leaks. Any suggestions on places to check? Also, headed to the junk yard to pick up another stepper motor. They have a 92 range rover and a 97 discovery. Hopefully one of them has a compatible module. Anything else I should pick up so that I can swap it in? I'll probably also see if I can grab a distributor cap since there was corrosion on mine...
What's the spark like?

How did you check for leaks? Even a small leak could mess up idle.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #60  
Old January 20th, 2014, 07:18 PM
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Sam Odio
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Russell - mechanic friend doesn't think it's the stepper motor. Last time it was the fuel pump.

That said, you've convinced me to swing by o'reillys and pick one up.

------ Follow up post added January 20th, 2014 04:18 PM ------

Jason - I've visually inspected the intake hoses but haven't done anything more than that. What do you suggest?
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