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  #1  
Old July 3rd, 2006, 09:44 PM
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Clark Bowen
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Installing a TD5 in a 110

Has anyone installed a TD5 in their NAS Defender? I am waiting for the motor and trans from the UK to swap into my D 110 and am curious about any experiences with this motor in US Defenders.
Most diesel LR guys/mechanics seem to be afraid of its electronics, but all my internet research indicates that it had stumble problems initially and that's it.
Any comments?

Thanks,

Clark
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  #2  
Old July 3rd, 2006, 10:08 PM
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Hmmmmmm Td5, I was more concerned for parts availability than anything else. You can find 200 and 300 tdi OEM and 3rd partie parts all over. But Td5 I would not know.

It must still be nice to put that little td5 sticker on each sides.

My 0.02$

Let us know how it goes.

Pat
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  #3  
Old July 4th, 2006, 10:39 AM
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Wasn't Revor making Td5 noises recently? I think he was talking about putting one in Karen's Disco though ???
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  #4  
Old July 5th, 2006, 08:37 AM
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We are doing a V8 to Td5 now in my own truck, so it will be slow going as I only work on it on off hours, but it is a lot bigger convesrion than V8 to 300 Tdi or 2.8PS.
It is fully electronic, even fly by wire throttle. So if you are looking for easy, cheap and simple go Tdi or 2.8, the Td5 won't be any of those. I'm doing it only because I ended up with a new Td5 engine for basically no money... otherwise I wouldn't have done it. Can't say I'd suggest it, but to each his own. The parts list fot eh conversion is about 3 times longer than that of the V8 to Tdi conversion.
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  #5  
Old July 5th, 2006, 09:14 AM
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Patrick M.
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300Tdi (Brit, no electronic) vs Td5

(+)
*cheaper
*easier & cheaper maintenance
*simpler
*last longer
*more reliable
*almost identical power
*(no electronic) able to run almost w/o battery

(-)
*noisier

I would not go for the Td5 even for free.
Pat
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  #6  
Old July 5th, 2006, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
I would not go for the Td5 even for free.
Pat
Free Td5 with todays gas prices or tired old 3.9 V8 sucking fuel at a high rate.... hmmm, lemme see... what to do.... what to do... Yup, you'd have to be an idiot not go go with the free turbo diesel.
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  #7  
Old July 5th, 2006, 06:01 PM
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Peter Sherman
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I would not go for the Td5 even for free.

With all due respect! WTF are you on?? Have you driven one?
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  #8  
Old July 5th, 2006, 08:17 PM
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I say go for it !

The world belongs to those who dare ! I would still be driving my Subaru if I was to listen to all the negative comments people were throwing at me when I was importing my first D110. Today, they all want one ... goes to say.

Good luck and keep us posted with pics please.

Pat
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  #9  
Old July 5th, 2006, 10:29 PM
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Patrick M.
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Well, I own 2 300Tdi and my brother owns a Td5.

my point not going for a Td5 in a Defender sounds like this:
If you have a Defender, probably want to make it last a long long time
for that reason you want an engine :
easy & cheap to fix
easy & cheap to maintain
easy & cheap to overhaul
easy to find & cheap spare parts.
reliable !!

The Td5 fails everyone,
If you have a Defender you would also probably like to go far away where there are no many mechanics knowing much about LR engines. the 300Tdi is a very easy engine the Td5 is definitely not. Just perform a search 300/200 Tdi vs Td5 and you'll see what the rest of the world thinks about it. if you go to Africa which one would you take with you ? a TD5? no way, everybody takes 200/300TDIs
The engine concept is different, one is made to last and make happy the owner the other one is made to make happy mechanics and the spare part companies.

Just an example about cost.
300Tdi Injectors ERR3339 = 49.95 ....4 units required = 199.8 ex VAT
TD5 Injectors MSC000040 = 318.97 ..5 units required = 1594.85 ex VAT

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/cgi-bin/...artID=ERR3339P
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/cgi-bin/...rtID=MSC000040

everything is like that...
I hope you guys can understand my point of view better now


Pat
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  #10  
Old July 6th, 2006, 11:43 AM
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Peter Sherman
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Landrover-TD5-...QQcmdZViewItem

AH YA SO YOUR POINT IS?
Mikes point is FREE! & hes probably sharp enough to fix his own shit.
How much time have you spent in Africa. Most PH's I know run Toy diesels [no turbo]
this Will be the last post on this topic for me so have fun
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  #11  
Old July 6th, 2006, 03:08 PM
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Patrick M.
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well, some times common sense is not common at all...

If I were Mike I would've sold the TD5 and installed a 300Tdi if available, even for him maintenance won't be free, and reliability won't be better than the average. Then I think his movement was not the best...
You're right, I've never been in Africa but I definitely enjoy having in my Defender the same engine they use there, that matches the (my) Defender concept.
Just my point of view.

about your injector eBay auction, please don't make me laugh...

Pat
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  #12  
Old July 6th, 2006, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
If I were Mike I would've sold the TD5Pat
Thank god you aren't me or I'd have to take all those pills to cure the "cranial rectosis" you have.

Lets get back to the point...
Chris asked about installing his Td5 he already bought and nobody gave him any good information at all. Including me.

Chris,
You are going to be dealing with a lot of parts, throttle set up, computers, wiring harness, speed sensors and such. Did this engine you bought come from a Defender? Were you able to buy any of the other bits? Like a wiring harness and ECU? or is it "just the basics" of the motor. I have all the Td5 parts books if you need any part # help.

You will need to do all the usual, change motor mounts on the chassis, gearbox crossmember, exhaust, etc etc.
As soon as I get through mine I'll be able to offer you a lot more real data. You will be able to get it together, it is just a lot of parts. The customers Td5 powered 110s I have driven are very nice to drive, unless you are building an expedition rig you'll probably love it. One of our mechanics did a self-drive safrai thing in South Africa a few years back th the 110 he rented was Td5. He said he loved it and had no troubles other than he said it was a little "surgy" in low range (but I bet that rental truck was pretty thrashed).

Why not ask Pat for some detailed pictures of his brother's Td5 Defender?
Ya know, my grandma drives a Pink Panther too.



Follow-up Post:

Sorry, I called Clark, Chris. my mistake
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  #13  
Old July 6th, 2006, 04:46 PM
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Patrick M.
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Clark asked about the Td5 and I just gave my honest & founded opinion on those engines w/o insulting anyone...
It seems nobody but you guys (ECR & friends) like that engine, who knows why????? but that's OK...

you guys keep your TD5s with computers and all that and I'll keep my 3000TDIs with a mechanical injection pump.

see ya
Pat
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  #14  
Old July 6th, 2006, 05:04 PM
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The pioneers aways take the arrows.
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  #15  
Old July 6th, 2006, 05:39 PM
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Greg
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Thought this was a good read:

http://www.web-rover.co.uk/nav.php?p=my_td5


Page 4:

So Smiley (Martin) came over with a T4 handheld programmer, and a full Rover TestBook system. We had a play around with the ECU, but we still couldn't get it to work. One odd thing we noticed was that the ECU thought it was a Discovery Td5 ECU, not a Defender one.

We tried the other ECU (NNN000120), but TestBook failed to program this correctly, probably as the ECU was too new.

However, whilst trying the NNN000120, I have a look at the other ECU. I noticed it had "LT MAN" printed on the label. I had a nasty hunch... a quick check of the RAVE CDs and I was proved right. LT was the VIN code for the Discovery. We'd been sold a Discovery Td5 Manual ECU by the dealers. Which is why the ECU thought it was Discovery. It was never going to work. All that time wasted.

A visit to the dealership the next morning, and the 'problem' was explained to them. Then came another shock. The older 1999-2001 ECUs (MSB000080) were no longer available, they were superceded by NNN000120. This meant that it was likely that there were no MSB000080's available any more. However, Guy Salmon did a ring round of other parts departments of Land Rover dealers in the ECU, asking them to check whether they had a 1999 ECU sitting on the shelf. They found one in Yeovil, Somerset, and it was rapidly couriered to Stratford.
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  #16  
Old July 6th, 2006, 08:44 PM
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Patrick M.
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Randy
Paying fortunes for taking arrows doesn't seem very smart...

Greg
finally some common sense,
that article shows how "friendly" & "flexible" the smart TD5 can be.

just taking one random from the article "... I didn't spot this because we didn't have a water temperature gauge, since the Td5 has an ECU-controlled gauge, and we didn't have one."

This is a very funny one, The TD5 uses a Bosch temperature sensor but its temperature gauge is a VDO expecting a VDO sensor, obviously both with different transfer curves; then the solution was to get the ECU involved "even for the temperature display" !! Very good design !! c'mon...

Pat
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  #17  
Old July 6th, 2006, 10:44 PM
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Whoa Pat, I would prefer the TDI for simplicity and reliability, but I am glad someone is out there exploring other possibilities.
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  #18  
Old July 7th, 2006, 09:21 AM
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Patrick M.
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There should always be some hope of improvement in the horizon in order to explore other possibilities taking risks like early adopters.

So far in this steamy thread --nobody-- mentioned just only --one-- Td5 advantage over the 300Tdi...
... and please don't tell me "I've got it for free" nor "it's the new kid on the block"...

Pat
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  #19  
Old July 7th, 2006, 09:31 AM
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The advantage for me installing a Td5 in my D90 will be the exploration of a Td5, an engine I rarely see, and the advancement of my knowledge of this engine set up so I can better work on customer cars. Plus having done the 300 Tdi conversion to death this will be great fun to get into new territory as that is what keeps the fun of working on Rovers alive... new stuff.

If you like the 300 Tdi better than the Td5 that is great. I agree on a mechanical basis, but it doesn't make anyone else wrong by wanting to play with a Td5.

I like the Powerstoke diesel in my Ford better than the Duramax in the GMs, but that doesn't make over a million GM owners "wrong".

Let it drop... some of us are going to play with Td5s no matter what you think or say. Its just your opinion and you already shared it. Great, we know your opinion... now stop making the poor guy that just dropped a ton of cash on a UK Td5 engine feel like crap. Go out and fondle your Tdi or something...
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  #20  
Old July 7th, 2006, 01:57 PM
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Lets see,

One distinct advantage of a TD5 is that is has WAY more power, more torque. Is that good enough Pat? A 300 tuned to the hilt with all the BS: intercooler, intake, exaust, fuel is capeable of a realistic 140 ponies. A TD5 with a chip and intercooler can hit 200. So, is 30% more power worth discussing?

Clark,

A good friend of mine just finished an install of a TD5 on his 110. He owns a shop down in San Diego called the Rover Group. He is a very nice guy and would help you with the install if you called and asked very nicely He had some issue with the ECU but got it worked out. Let me tell you this, that truck is a fast Rover. Good luck with the install! It is a big undertaking but definently worth it.
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