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  #21  
Old July 7th, 2006, 02:38 PM
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Gotcha, you kept the Td5 just to expand your business... That's OK...

About my words, sorry; I'm just an EE not a Psychologist.
When it come to engines I prefer facts to phony nice words... the facts, no matter when, are always cheaper.


Buck
It seems the ones that get the courage with the TD5 are no more than shop owners...
About the power your figures are not realistic, you should compare the original engine power not the tuned engine. You just get those 200 bph from a Td5 and you'll see how soon you are going to be re-doing the thing up to the last bolt.

from the article : http://www.web-rover.co.uk/nav.php?p=my_td5

"In Defender specification, the Td5 develops 122 bhp (120 PS, 90 kW) at 4200 rpm, and in the Discovery this is upped to 136 bhp (134 PS, 101 kW) at 4200 rpm by use of a different fuelling map and an electronic wastegate. Along with 300 Nm (221 lb.ft) of torque at 1950 rpm, these relate to a 9% increase in power and 13% more torque than the outgoing 300 Tdi engine."


enough for me with this thread

Pat
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  #22  
Old July 7th, 2006, 03:19 PM
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To me the best diesel option is the BMW. They came in P38a. Bowler made a few with deisel BMW power so it has to work in a D90 somehow. I can't stand diesel (cut Tdi motor mounts off a new 110 galvy frame to weld on V8 mounts :-) )

Now if you just want fast you can get a BMW powered D90 (gas 2.8i) from South Africa and as soon as the new 335i comes out you can get a wrecked motor from one of them (300hp twin turbo) or an M3 motor (333hp).
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  #23  
Old July 7th, 2006, 05:28 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Let's see...

http://www.nav-international.com.br/...ipo=1&Idioma=2

choices, choices! Which one to pick?
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  #24  
Old July 7th, 2006, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
ECR
Gotcha, you kept the Td5 just to expand your business... That's OK...

About my words, sorry; I'm just an EE not a Psychologist.
When it come to engines I prefer facts to phony nice words... the facts, no matter when, are always cheaper.


Buck
It seems the ones that get the courage with the TD5 are no more than shop owners...
About the power your figures are not realistic, you should compare the original engine power not the tuned engine. You just get those 200 bph from a Td5 and you'll see how soon you are going to be re-doing the thing up to the last bolt.

from the article : http://www.web-rover.co.uk/nav.php?p=my_td5

"In Defender specification, the Td5 develops 122 bhp (120 PS, 90 kW) at 4200 rpm, and in the Discovery this is upped to 136 bhp (134 PS, 101 kW) at 4200 rpm by use of a different fuelling map and an electronic wastegate. Along with 300 Nm (221 lb.ft) of torque at 1950 rpm, these relate to a 9% increase in power and 13% more torque than the outgoing 300 Tdi engine."


enough for me with this thread

Pat
Meh,

Almost nobody runs the 300 and doesn't turn a skrew on it to bump the HP to 130. Same goes to the TD5. With a chip and an intercooler, it is a wonderful engine. If you leave out the ability to modify then you are not looking at the whole picture and making a foolish arguement. Besides, 111 to 136 is 18% Thats well worth the effort.

Good luck on the engine install. If I had the know-how to do this I would have tried it. I still would like more HP from my 300.
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  #25  
Old July 7th, 2006, 07:07 PM
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Regarding the power issue, I recall a road test on the then-new Td5 110 model. Testers were amazed to exceed 90 mph while driving the highway.

Given the driving habits of most (majority of miles on-road even if an off-road enthusiast), the Td5 would likely make a better daily driver than a 200 or 300. Of those who actually drive these things, I have heard favorable comments about using a vehicle with the Td5.

The more known about these applications the better off we all are for it. People then have a choice, and can opt for the engine better suiting their needs.
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  #26  
Old July 7th, 2006, 08:39 PM
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Patrick M.
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Well, this one is really my last one here.

Buck
I didn't say that is forbidden to "tune" the engines.
But comparing just power like you do does not make much sense.
If you talk about power you have to talk about engine life expectancy and MPG, the three factors come together.
Then lets compare apples with apples
original TD5= 122 bhp, the original 300Tdi= 111 bhp, that gives us 9% difference
In that case the MPG are similar both engines 23.6 MPG (Discovery 300tdi highway 80 mph)
Life expectancy 300tdi before overhauling = more than 250.000 miles.
Life expectancy TD5 who knows... but we might expect a similar figure if everything goes ok.......
The difference is just 9%


The same is valid when we compare the International-Engines products.
Yes they have more power from the factory but they last exactly a half what a 300Tdi last....

Cheers
Pat
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  #27  
Old July 7th, 2006, 09:52 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Where do you get a number of 125K miles for the life expectancy of a 2.8 - or any other HS motor???

And 23MPG doing 80 on any Tdi? Dream on!
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  #28  
Old July 8th, 2006, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
Well, this one is really my last one here.

Buck
I didn't say that is forbidden to "tune" the engines.
But comparing just power like you do does not make much sense.
If you talk about power you have to talk about engine life expectancy and MPG, the three factors come together.
Then lets compare apples with apples
original TD5= 122 bhp, the original 300Tdi= 111 bhp, that gives us 9% difference
In that case the MPG are similar both engines 23.6 MPG (Discovery 300tdi highway 80 mph)
Life expectancy 300tdi before overhauling = more than 250.000 miles.
Life expectancy TD5 who knows... but we might expect a similar figure if everything goes ok.......
The difference is just 9%


The same is valid when we compare the International-Engines products.
Yes they have more power from the factory but they last exactly a half what a 300Tdi last....

Cheers
Pat
Okay,

Apples to apples:

Safely Tuned 300 = 135 HP
Safely Tuned TD5 = 185 HP

Hows that, simple enough? Most people willing to spend 8k on an engine don't care about MPG too much and your life expectancy numbers are completely fabricated. You have no idea how long a 2.8 or TD5 will last.

Once again, whatever engine anybody wants to put in a Defender, good luck, God speed, post pics.
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  #29  
Old July 8th, 2006, 08:54 AM
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Man.... if you got the parts and the know how, Do it. I would love to get my hands on one of those complete engines and get it up to 185hp.... I still have to tune my 300 which I have never done yet...errrr
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  #30  
Old July 8th, 2006, 06:26 PM
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D-90,Tdi,35's,3-link,Etc

...no tuning.

Pathetic!
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  #31  
Old July 8th, 2006, 06:38 PM
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George Kase
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Greg...fascinating read on the Td5 install...thanks for posting that URL..(also interesting to see their interpretation of an NAS spec roll cage)
George
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  #32  
Old July 8th, 2006, 10:18 PM
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I saw this (http://www.allardturbosport.co.uk/pa..._discovery.asp ) on Allard's website not too long ago and emailed them regarding it. As it says on the webpage it claims that this engine when modified with the VNT turbo is even better than an uprated TD5. It seems like a good alternative to a TD5 in that it has performance like a td5 but a more simple engine without electronics and a 300tdi is easy to find secondhand if that were the way to go. On the other hand one could make the arguement that doing so would essentially give you a 2.8 PS. At any rate, it seemed like an interesting option, you certainly would be one of very few to have that engine!
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  #33  
Old July 8th, 2006, 11:42 PM
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TD5 in a 110

Well, am I glad I started this thread because your many responses, references, and arguments really taught me a lot about these motors. Thanks.
I just drove a friend's 2004 D110 with a 300 TDI and a slightly upgraded intercooler and it seemed a little underpowered for me. I kept trying to drive it like a V8 (winding it up) and of course that didn't work too well. We just drove on the flats, so I'm not too sure how well it will do in the mountains. What I do like is doubling my driving range. Of course, I can just throw 3 NATO cans on the roof rack and continue to drive the V8.
Overall, I liked the recent post (sorry, I cannot remember who posted) about the Garret variable vane turbo from Allard - except $3,500+ with an uprated intercooler moves it right up there into 2.8TGV territory.
Still like the idea of the TD5, but I am wondering how many arrows I'll have to take in the process.

Clark
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  #34  
Old July 8th, 2006, 11:57 PM
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Two points:

1. "a slightly upgraded intercooler": what is that exactly? Is it just the same size cooler but "more efficient" as sold in the UK? Either a full frontal or perhaps a water/air type is needed for max umph. I'll be fitting a water/air setup but it has to wait until the radiator and exhaust are done.

2. you don't need to buy that $3K turbo. I'll bet you can use a Garrett or such to work just fine.

Just go ahead with your project and don't worry about what might have been with the Tdi. Get it to work right and you will be pleased.

...until it acts up, of course.
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  #35  
Old July 9th, 2006, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Two points:

1. "a slightly upgraded intercooler": what is that exactly? Is it just the same size cooler but "more efficient" as sold in the UK? Either a full frontal or perhaps a water/air type is needed for max umph. I'll be fitting a water/air setup but it has to wait until the radiator and exhaust are done.

2. you don't need to buy that $3K turbo. I'll bet you can use a Garrett or such to work just fine.

Just go ahead with your project and don't worry about what might have been with the Tdi. Get it to work right and you will be pleased.

...until it acts up, of course.

Same size but more air flow, or bigger. I know you are really into the intercooler upgrade but don't get too bummed out when you get it. There are really no power gains to speak of. If you get any extra ponies, its not enough to feel. All the intercooler does is lower your EGT's so that you can pump more fuel into the motor and get more power that way.

Just my .02 on the turbo for the 300. If I was considering that option and didn't have a motor yet I would put the 3,500 on a 2.8 or TD5 all the way. The 300 doesn't like more than 17 pounds of boost and you can pretty much get there with a stock turbo. Much more than that and I heard they get cranky.
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  #36  
Old July 9th, 2006, 03:04 PM
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Yes, I know a better cooler lowers EGT's. That's good enough reason for me to upgrade . Of course, a bit extra fueling will be next - just a bit.

Just trying to see if in the end the 110 will be good enough to keep without the auto. If not, then I'll sell it and build another.
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  #37  
Old July 10th, 2006, 12:51 PM
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The Brazilian Quality is far away from the Brit Quality
International Engines sells the HS mostly to Ford for the "Mercosur" market (Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Uruguay etc)

If you guys are able to read Spanish/Portuguese why don't you read some opinions on the Ford Ranger powered by a Maxxion i.e. here http://www.parque4x4.com.ar/experien/ranger.html etc etc... Try to find what the real users say...


about 300Tdi MPG read here
http://www.landroveraddict.com/ubbth...0&fpart=1&vc=1
please consider US MPG = 0.83 x UK MPG because of the US & UK gallon differences.



I do not fabricate figures.

Pat
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  #38  
Old July 10th, 2006, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Yes, I know a better cooler lowers EGT's. That's good enough reason for me to upgrade . Of course, a bit extra fueling will be next - just a bit.

Just trying to see if in the end the 110 will be good enough to keep without the auto. If not, then I'll sell it and build another.
It's funny nobody talks about tweaking the fuel lift for more "performance" in a tdi.

Of course, if you want to sell Art, let me know...
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  #39  
Old July 10th, 2006, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pat
If you guys are able to read Spanish/Portuguese why don't you read some opinions on the Ford Ranger powered by a Maxxion i.e. here http://www.parque4x4.com.ar/experien/ranger.html etc etc... Try to find what the real users say...
Copy & paste that address into Google and asked it to translate it ... sheesh, them fellers aint too happy about our magical 2.8TVG
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  #40  
Old July 10th, 2006, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
It's funny nobody talks about tweaking the fuel lift for more "performance" in a tdi.

If it's not working I guess the truck will lose performance but "tweaking" it? I didn't realize there was anything adjustable on it.
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