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  #1  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 04:30 PM
artm
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Arthur Maravelis
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inspection problem and OBD2

Well, well, our friendly Mass inspection officials have thrown another wrinkle into this mess...

I have had intermittnet, frequent codes thrown on my 97 for years, anything from a misfire to that off-road sensor crap. Truck runs fine usually with th eoccasional slow idle during the summer.

Today I went for emissions inspection so I drove around a bit and cleared the code with the scanner.

The techie fails me. Attached is the relevant part of the report.

He says that because I cleared the fault code it also cleared some other data and rendered the ECU in a not-ready state. This should be resolved if I drive for 50-60 miles and return for a recheck - assuming no fault is triggered.

Yeah, right! I can't seem to go two days without a code thrown.

I have gone into inspections before where I had recently cleared the codes - even doing a clear when no code was active. They must have changed something in the software to catch people doing this.

At any rate, has anyone experienced this?
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  #2  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
At any rate, has anyone experienced this?
Nope sure haven't!



Try this- clear the codes, then without turning the truck off drive straight to the inspection place, instruct them NOT to turn the truck off. This usually works in NC... "or so I hear".
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  #3  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 04:56 PM
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No good...they insist on turning the motor off and then on. It has always been like that.
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  #4  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
.

At any rate, has anyone experienced this?
yes, it is very simple. they aren't just looking for codes. the OBDII system performs a variety of tests during the course of normal operation. When all the tests have been run it gives am "ok" to the system. When they plug in your truck they are looking to see that the majority of the tests are complete. In DC I tried this with my Benz and they failed me. I ended up having to pay someone to do the O2 sensor after all. If they didn't do this then people like you and me would just game the system and never fix all the shit that was broken on our vehicles. if you get an OBDII scanner, you can see when all the tests have completed.

ok, see you have a scanner...anyway, they are not even sniffing the emissions anymore AFAIK, just checking that the computer says "all systems go."
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  #5  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 04:59 PM
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Yes, you have to complete three drive cycles to get it through all the tests.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
No good...they insist on turning the motor off and then on. It has always been like that.
Well, it might be one of those things that there is no way around in your state, but in NC they have the procedure (supposed to cycle the ignition) but they do not have to. If you were here and had that problem you would just need to find the right inspection station.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 05:10 PM
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down here $20 or a 12 pack usually helps the inspector read more clearly..
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  #8  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dbj2003
down here $20 or a 12 pack usually helps the inspector read more clearly..
A few years back I actually did 15 inspections one day, without ever disconnecting the machine from my own car... They have complicated things since then but the $20 bill still solves most little problems.
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  #9  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 08:26 PM
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I think that in Mass as in NH the State issues the emmisions pass / fail and it has been taken out of the techs hands completely.

Generally takes more than 3 drive cycles to get GEMs to show ready on everything. I drove one disco 200miles over 4 days to get the damn thing to come into it.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #10  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 09:16 PM
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They do it in MD as well, BUT, if you don't admit you clear it before driving in, they will eventually exempt you. ( happened to me on a car tha tthe o2 light blinks for pure sh%t and triggers the OBDII )
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  #11  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 09:28 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Yes, you're right Matt - Mass has it all automated now and the tech can't do anything. Some even have cameras installed to stop the last bit of cheating.

So, is there any scanner that reads and tells me that all is well? I'm entitled to one free reinspection but have no way of knowing if the system is ready to go. I now hear 50 miles, 200 miles, 3 restarts, 4 days...how can I be certain?

Again, I have cleared codes in the past shortly before an inspection. Why the issue now?

In the end I guess I need to sort out the issues to stop the codes as I can't go 10 restarts without one thrown.
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  #12  
Old June 3rd, 2009, 09:31 PM
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It all goes back to the drive cycle on the OBD II Art. It needs enough repeated data to provide an all clear to the testing cycle. I had the same happen on my DII after disconnecting the battery for an install. I drove the truck for a week, about 150 miles and brought it back.
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  #13  
Old June 4th, 2009, 06:55 AM
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I would expect your 50-60 miles is not enough for the OBD II computer to be ready to for all tests. I had the same issue with a 2003 Disco II in Mass. on Nantucket. The truck was there temporarily from Arizona, drove it out in 2008, drove the D90 back to Az for a winter long rehab. Well, AZ wanted an emission inspection done in order to renew my registration. So as luck would have it, I showed up in November and was there for four days, and the first thing I have is a check engine light. Knowing the emission "official" will not pass it with it on, I disconnect the battery overnight, retighten the gas cap, and the light clears.

On my first inspection I had about 4 tests where OBD was not ready. I subsequently went back three more times over the the couple of days I was there, each time, there were fewer and fewer tests that OBD was not ready to support. I wound up driving about 250 miles, doing circles around that 14 mile island, driving the only 50 mph speed limit section of road in 2nd gear, burning almost a whole tank of gas, in order to pass the inspection.

I thought the whole thing reminded me of the Twilight Zone-- burning gas, driving an extra 250 miles, spewing emissions, in order to prove to some government official my car has low emissions!

So my advice - make sure any fault is cleared, then drive out to Springfield and back to Boston and immediately get it inspected.
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  #14  
Old June 4th, 2009, 08:46 AM
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The kick in the crotch is any pre '96 gas vehicle does not have a OBD (I think the mean OBDII) and is not subject to the OBD emission test in Mass. Missed it by one year.

Re-title it as a '95 and this all goes away or wait just 3 more years as any OBD vehicle 15 yyears or older is exept...

page 6
http://www.mass.gov/dep/service/regulations/6002tsd.pdf
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  #15  
Old June 4th, 2009, 08:49 AM
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Hadn't officially seen the 15 year exclusion in writing yet. That is great news actually.
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  #16  
Old June 4th, 2009, 09:10 AM
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Have you all got waivers? Down here if you can get a mechanic to sign off on a letter saying he can't fix it you can get a waiver.
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  #17  
Old June 5th, 2009, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14
Have you all got waivers? Down here if you can get a mechanic to sign off on a letter saying he can't fix it you can get a waiver.
up here they give you 60 days to fix it.

"Can't fix it" is an odd excuse for a mechanic.

Art, many of the inexpensive (less than $100) hand held scan tools will now read live data as well as system status (readiness), as well as enable you to just fix the damn thing which is really not that difficult once you can see what is happening (meant to be helpfull, not insulting) .

The Rover OBDII seems to take much longer than most to cycle if you clear codes. Generally about 200/250 miles. A WRX Subaru will do it in 300 ft if you start it 3 times! (this should be some sort of timed event)
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
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  #18  
Old June 5th, 2009, 04:13 PM
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I had the exact same problem about 2 months ago on my '96 Disco (same engine as your '97 D90). I know the heating element of one of my o2 sensor is bad (BTW, you should find out the cause of the check engine light so you fix it once and for all). I have to buy the part but needed to drive the truck (legally) for a few weeks (i.e. no time to fix before emission was due even with the additional 2 weeks you get after failing).

Anyway, in the case of an o2 sensor, you will get the check engine light back on after two engine "cold-warm" cycles. So, I cleared the code, went there, they said it did not work and I had to drive it around since the system was not ready.... Ok..... So I plugged my OBD-2 cable/computer monitor in (BTW, I can't locate it since I did that.... Anyone has seen it?) to drive a bit and get all the systems squared away (read: planning on driving ~20-25 miles on the highway) and it appears that after a few miles (5 or 10) of driving in the city (I wanted to drive to highway speed for a few miles), the system marked all the components as "ready". So, it does not take 200 miles for the rover system, maybe 10-15 at the most and it does not take reaching highway speed (35-45 at the most).
Just make sure you do that before you take it back to them so your engine is still warm when they test it.

Disclaimer: your mileage may vary, and of course, fix the problem you have, it's illegal to "tamper" with the OBD systems.

BTW, in VA the technicians can't do anything anymore neither, the computer is locked and the entire test automated (don't think they are any cameras though).
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  #19  
Old June 5th, 2009, 06:47 PM
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You guy who big brother has locked down on, just move to NC for a month (you can get an inspection down here with your out of state reg.) then move home. It sounds silly, and I am joking, but honestly in some cases it may be cheaper than a proper repair.

Follow-up Post:

OR you can move to ALABAMA but I heard they make you squeal like a pig?
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  #20  
Old June 7th, 2009, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonLand
So, it does not take 200 miles for the rover system, maybe 10-15 at the most and it does not take reaching highway speed (35-45 at the most).
We should have you come and do the voodoo touch on some of the trucks we have to deal with. We get more than just a little tired of driving the damn things around trying to get all the systems "ready".
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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