Info needed on 10 tooth SAE parallel sided splines - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 7th, 2013, 03:30 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Info needed on 10 tooth SAE parallel sided splines

Looking for technical info on the splines for the input shaft on an LT230. I have read they are the same as the 10 spline rover axles but have not confirmed.

Anyway, as best I can tell, they are 10 tooth SAE parallel sided splines and this is a standard type of spline. I found this document about them,

http://mech.sharif.edu/~durali/desig...cture%2020.pdf

which leaves me wondering which kind they are

A. Permanent fit
B. To slide without load
C. To slide under load

My guess is B, but I am not sure. You'll see from the doc that it changes the dimensions. I am going to try take measurments of both an input gear and a zf spud shaft to try tell what I have but my concern is that if they are worn at all (highly likely) that my measurements may be misleading, and I want the "proper" dimensions to make a CAD drawing of a custom input shaft I need to make.

tia,
charles
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  #2  
Old May 7th, 2013, 04:20 PM
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Another point of difference is the length of this spud shaft, LT230 vs LT230Q.

When I was installing my new ZF to my (1997) LT230Q (note the Q), in my 300Tdi project, I bought the spud shaft and dipstick tube from a salvage yard in OR out of a D1. The recycled spud shaft was too long by about 1/2" (must have been out of a straight LT230, not a Q model). I ended up going to my local dealer and buying one for the "Q" upgrade model spud shaft. Back in 2001, it was about $250, ouch !, but it got my project moving along. Another part that was missing was the kick down cable component that goes onto the injector pump.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 04:28 PM
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My info (from Maxidrive) on axle shafts is:

d = 0.997", D = 1.11", d/D = .89 That puts it between A and B fits by your chart. I could probably measure an axle shaft later to check.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Another point of difference is the length of this spud shaft, LT230 vs LT230Q.
I will have to keep mindful of this, but I am hoping I can make my shaft work with both. I am starting with a used transfer case to verify my gearing works as expected but want to put in a rebuilt unit from ashcroft when verified. The stub shaft I am using as a reference only has 2" of spline (2.3" to the end of the taper) so I assume it's the old style. The spud shaft is 6" long, 3.5 to the fillet.


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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
My info (from Maxidrive) on axle shafts is:

d = 0.997", D = 1.11", d/D = .89 That puts it between A and B fits by your chart. I could probably measure an axle shaft later to check.
Thanks John. I have the following measurements on mine (although I lay no claims to being good at measuring and I am guessing these were originally in mm but don't get any nice round numbers in mm either)

d = 1.015", D = 1.165", d/D = 0.87

h = 0.069 although (D-d)/2 = 0.075 so makes me wary of my measurements

Anyhow these numbers align pretty closely with B

B. h = 0.07D = 0.0816
d = 0.86D = 1.002

But it would be nice to know what d and D should be precisely
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Old May 7th, 2013, 07:35 PM
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But is it ok to run longer splined version in a non-cross drilled (thought it was gear not case)?
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Old May 7th, 2013, 07:37 PM
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Also can someone confirm that there is nothing special about that fillet. IE a bearing doesn't sit there or anything? I showed this to someone who noticed the different surface on the fillet and wondered if it was for a reason (other than it didn't need to be polished) like perhaps heat treated or hardened there.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 07:53 PM
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You can run a 3in output in a 2in input. You cannot run a 2in output (r380) in a 3in input (lt230). In other words, make your output 3in.

You should also spring for a cross drilled input as frankly that custom shaft will cost you a bunch and why not have the extra inch.

Yes, it is the gear that is cross drilled, not the case.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Another point of difference is the length of this spud shaft, LT230 vs LT230Q.

When I was installing my new ZF to my (1997) LT230Q (note the Q), in my 300Tdi project, I bought the spud shaft and dipstick tube from a salvage yard in OR out of a D1. The recycled spud shaft was too long by about 1/2" (must have been out of a straight LT230, not a Q model). I ended up going to my local dealer and buying one for the "Q" upgrade model spud shaft. Back in 2001, it was about $250, ouch !, but it got my project moving along. Another part that was missing was the kick down cable component that goes onto the injector pump.
It was probably not too long, it was probably not machined down the full three inches. What happens is you can't fit the 2in output into a three inch input.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:01 PM
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Yes the plan is to make the splines 3". But initially I plan on just running an old tcase to make sure it performs as expected at that gearing. I will inspect the input gear for wear to make sure it's not too bad and I guess consider getting it cross drilled, but don't want to shell out for the rebuilt one until I know it's going to be the right gearing. I guess one option is to get a new input gear up front to make sure I don't bugger my shaft....
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:03 PM
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I should have mentioned I don't have the tcase yet, just borrow one from huff for test fitting things
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:04 PM
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Just buy a t-case with a cross drilled input. Why not use the BW? I am guessing this wont be a hardcore wheeler.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
It was probably not too long, it was probably not machined down the full three inches. What happens is you can't fit the 2in output into a three inch input.
You are correct. Now that I've seen the pix in post #5, I remember more clearly what the problem was 12 years ago .... Thanks for correcting me.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
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Just buy a t-case with a cross drilled input.
Already bought one and have no idea if it's cross drilled. I may be able to get it cross drilled locally though.

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Why not use the BW? I am guessing this wont be a hardcore wheeler
I don't think I'll ever wheel it. I chose to err on the side of caution and go with what is considered the best. I also want a like-new drivetrain when done and LT230s seem to be the only ones getting rebuilt. The different shapes prevent me from swapping around easily at will.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:13 PM
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In reference to post #5, note the bolt head on top of the left example. This bolt has an rubber "O" associated with it, the sequence of where it's placed, I don't recall (12 years ago), or it's function but it's there in the assembly.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:17 PM
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It holds the spud shaft to the zf output shaft. No particular order - just bolts right up. The o-ring stops fluid bypassing the seal.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
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Already bought one and have no idea if it's cross drilled. I may be able to get it cross drilled locally though.


I don't think I'll ever wheel it. I chose to err on the side of caution and go with what is considered the best. I also want a like-new drivetrain when done and LT230s seem to be the only ones getting rebuilt. The different shapes prevent me from swapping around easily at will.
I thought you said you were borrowing an LT230?
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:57 PM
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I am borrowing one with a different gear ratio so I have a case I can test fit things to. So good for making sure I can do what I want to do physically but not good as a final test because of the gear ratio (and it's a short term loan)

Thanks for the pic Jeff. Does the hole go all the way through and would you happen to know the size? I will check mine when I get it.

Still hoping someone knows the definitive numbers for the splines.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 09:04 PM
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I am not over thinking it. I am planning on drilling it if it isn't! I am getting help from a guy with access to a full machine shop so this should be trivial.
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Old May 8th, 2013, 04:03 PM
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As a tag along question on this topic, does anyone have any idea of how much play there is in the position of the input gear in the LT230. What I am trying to determine is the tolerance required for the position of the input shaft into the gear.
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Old May 8th, 2013, 05:47 PM
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2in input and 3in output?
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