Importing a Defender - Page 3 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old January 31st, 2013, 11:45 AM
meatblanket's Avatar
meatblanket
Status: Offline
Mike Simpson
1955 86 1986 ExMOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Golden CO USA
Posts: 582
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Pretty clear, Thanks. that's nice to have for the file and for future reference.
It is a helpful document but I don't think it's clear at all. It suggests that in order to import an engine, you have to submit an EPA Form 3520-1 and declare code "W". However, if you do that then you are saying that the engine is to be installed in an EPA conforming vehicle before introduction into commerce.

But that isn't what happens. Instead, the non-chassis mounted engine is to be installed in an EPA EXEMPT vehicle. There is no box on Form 3520-1 that covers this scenario.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #42  
Old January 31st, 2013, 11:48 AM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
It is a helpful document but I don't think it's clear at all. It suggests that in order to import an engine, you have to submit an EPA Form 3520-1 and declare code "W". However, if you do that then you are saying that the engine is to be installed in an EPA conforming vehicle before introduction into commerce.

But that isn't what happens. Instead, the non-chassis mounted engine is to be installed in an EPA EXEMPT vehicle. There is no box on Form 3520-1 that covers this scenario.
that's when you say it's going to run a water pump on your farm!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old January 31st, 2013, 11:58 AM
meatblanket's Avatar
meatblanket
Status: Offline
Mike Simpson
1955 86 1986 ExMOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Golden CO USA
Posts: 582
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
that's when you say it's going to run a water pump on your farm!
No box to check for that either.

So if CBP insists on an EPA Form 3520-1, I guess you check box "W" and forget about it.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #44  
Old January 31st, 2013, 12:11 PM
88b9p
Status: Offline
Jim
1994 D90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pgh PA
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
Did you check your voice mail before posting ?

Doug....check your pm
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old January 31st, 2013, 01:06 PM
couga861900's Avatar
couga861900
Status: Offline
Cougar, WM of Hiram 72
Land Rover Defender 90 2.5td
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: East
Posts: 856
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
Did you check your voice mail before posting ?
Sorry guys.The Iphone D90 app. is so limited that I didn't realize that Doug contacted me before my posting. Doug did reach out to me. My trying to reach Doug consist of finding out who he was and getting his contact info. My trying to contact him was nothing wrong on his part. I have to thank him for his quick response. He is much quicker than my previous RI. Trying to reach them was like trying to contact Pres. Obama.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old January 31st, 2013, 07:27 PM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,841
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
any engine in a Disco would be under 21 years, right? But moreover, I would assume one would not go through the hassle of importing an engine unless it was at least a 200Tdi (which still has a few years left before it's technically legal).
First year for the 200tdi was 1989 the year the Discovery was introduced.

2013-21=1992 (the last year of production for the 200tdi)

------ Follow up post added January 31st, 2013 07:31 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
No box to check for that either.

So if CBP insists on an EPA Form 3520-1, I guess you check box "W" and forget about it.

response deleated.

almost disclosed how I do it
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old January 31st, 2013, 08:13 PM
couga861900's Avatar
couga861900
Status: Offline
Cougar, WM of Hiram 72
Land Rover Defender 90 2.5td
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: East
Posts: 856
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post

Page 13 section 3.2
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old February 1st, 2013, 11:21 AM
meatblanket's Avatar
meatblanket
Status: Offline
Mike Simpson
1955 86 1986 ExMOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Golden CO USA
Posts: 582
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
First year for the 200tdi was 1989 the year the Discovery was introduced.

2013-21=1992 (the last year of production for the 200tdi)

------ Follow up post added January 31st, 2013 07:31 PM ------




response deleated.

almost disclosed how I do it
Hey no need to divulge trade secrets!

I think we've discussed this before, the lack of knowledge of the regulations by any given customs officer as it relates to importing auto parts/vehicles. I recall you saying that you've been asked for HS-7 forms for engines, which ain't right. So I guess you have to decide whether you want to give them what they want or whether you want to argue the law with them. It makes sense just to go with whatever works.

If you are importing a non-chassis mounted engine, the age of the engine is irrelevant. The EPA states that it doesn't regulate importation of auto parts, only vehicles. There are no federal motor vehicle safety standards that apply to engines/transmissions, so NHTSA doesn't care either. EPA is set up such that a crime is committed when you mount that non-certified engine into a vehicle that is subject to EPA regulation.

What I don't understand though is why Form 3520-1 states that it has to be submitted to import a non-chassis mounted engine, when at the same time EPA says it doesn't regulate parts, only complete vehicles. That statement not only appears in the publication I linked above, but is also clearly made in CFR Title 19 Sec. 12.73(a), Applicability of EPA Requirements.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...259.49&idno=19

It's not my intention to write a treatise here but if there is a law forbidding import of non-chassis mounted 300tdi engines (or for that matter, TD5s and 2.4tdcis) then I can't find it.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old February 1st, 2013, 01:20 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
look at it this way, it's not illegal to import a complete 2012 Puma as parts either, build it as one, with the VIN that it came with it and it's not a legal vehicle in the US. A 200TDI/300TDI, TD5 and anything newer has never been a type accepted engine in the US. Are they here, yep, are they installed in trucks, yep, are they legal at the federal level...nope

Depends if you see things black and white or grey
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old February 1st, 2013, 02:38 PM
meatblanket's Avatar
meatblanket
Status: Offline
Mike Simpson
1955 86 1986 ExMOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Golden CO USA
Posts: 582
Registry
I see where you are going with that, i.e., I import a 1988 110 with it's original drivetrain intact, then import piecemeal a bunch of 2012 Puma parts and turn the 1988 110 into the functional equivalent of a 2012 Puma. As far as I can tell that would be legal despite the fact that doing so is an end run around the law prohibiting the importation of newer vehicles.

From an enforcement aspect I think EPA/NHTSA would have to classify you as a manufacturer under those circumstances.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old February 1st, 2013, 02:44 PM
jcb-memphis's Avatar
jcb-memphis
Status: Offline
Jeff B.
None
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 220
Have been some posts stating that Land Rover in 1993 had diesels certified for the 110 but did not import any. The 300tdi.

Just repeating a possible urban legend, but it sounds quite plausible. ECR is very "legal" and they have done conversions forever.


jb
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old February 1st, 2013, 02:46 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
no, it wouldn't be "legal"...like I said, black and white or grey...
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old February 1st, 2013, 02:55 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Online
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,744
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
I see where you are going with that, i.e., I import a 1988 110 with it's original drivetrain intact, then import piecemeal a bunch of 2012 Puma parts and turn the 1988 110 into the functional equivalent of a 2012 Puma. As far as I can tell that would be legal despite the fact that doing so is an end run around the law prohibiting the importation of newer vehicles.

From an enforcement aspect I think EPA/NHTSA would have to classify you as a manufacturer under those circumstances.
So what happens when I rebuild my '71 Series this summer, starting with a new galvy chassis up? Are the Federales going to come knocking?
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old February 1st, 2013, 03:00 PM
tjfslaughter's Avatar
tjfslaughter
Status: Offline
thomas
Burbon
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 4,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
So what happens when I rebuild my '71 Series this summer, starting with a new galvy chassis up? Are the Federales going to come knocking?
just sell it all to me.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old February 1st, 2013, 03:06 PM
meatblanket's Avatar
meatblanket
Status: Offline
Mike Simpson
1955 86 1986 ExMOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Golden CO USA
Posts: 582
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
So what happens when I rebuild my '71 Series this summer, starting with a new galvy chassis up? Are the Federales going to come knocking?
Probably not, unless when you are done it ends up looking exactly like a Nissan Skyline GT-R.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old February 1st, 2013, 03:14 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Online
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,744
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
Probably not, unless when you are done it ends up looking exactly like a Nissan Skyline GT-R.
Ah, but what about when I use all new panels ? Actually joking, best part of a Series is the patina.
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old February 1st, 2013, 03:16 PM
jcb-memphis's Avatar
jcb-memphis
Status: Offline
Jeff B.
None
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 220
That patina on a GT-R wouldn't look to sharp though...I'd rethink that.

Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old February 1st, 2013, 03:17 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
So what happens when I rebuild my '71 Series this summer, starting with a new galvy chassis up? Are the Federales going to come knocking?
Read what I posted...Did you put a 300TDI in it? If so, that's not "legal"...is your series legal, who knows, but in some states when your replace the frame, it needs to meet safety and epa standards for the year it's built. Keep the topic to imports, motor swaps are a different ball game.


Read up on the nissan skyline...difference is they said they were kit cars, but did seize vehicles, not a urban legend, but true facts...
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old February 1st, 2013, 03:30 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Online
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,744
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
Read what I posted...Did you put a 300TDI in it? If so, that's not "legal"...is your series legal, who knows, but in some states when your replace the frame, it needs to meet safety and epa standards for the year it's built. Keep the topic to imports, motor swaps are a different ball game.


Read up on the nissan skyline...difference is they said they were kit cars, but did seize vehicles, not a urban legend, but true facts...
No, dog-ish 2.25 liter. But if I wanted put a 200tdi in it that should be no problem at all as far as EPA is concerned (many are 21+ years, and more every year). Agreed on keeping it on topic, but was just responding to the post about motors below. And likewise if I wanted to import a Series III (or whatever) and use it as parts should likewise be no problem, as long as everything was documented.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
look at it this way, it's not illegal to import a complete 2012 Puma as parts either, build it as one, with the VIN that it came with it and it's not a legal vehicle in the US. A 200TDI/300TDI, TD5 and anything newer has never been a type accepted engine in the US. Are they here, yep, are they installed in trucks, yep, are they legal at the federal level...nope

Depends if you see things black and white or grey
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
defender, import

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
94 NAS Defender 90-P.O.E.(Port of Entry) 1 of 65 made! on EBAY SeanD-90 Misc. Chit-Chat 29 May 27th, 2017 08:14 AM
Whats in my container??????? SafariHP The Vendors Loft 30 November 26th, 2015 07:31 AM
Slickrock Defender 90 Sliders dave_lucas The Vendors Loft 15 November 28th, 2010 04:45 PM
1994 Red Defender 90 for sale BrianConway321 For Sale - Vehicles 5 February 22nd, 2005 09:27 PM
Defender 90 help Todd Defender Technical Discussions 7 August 28th, 2004 07:16 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Copyright