If you wanted to swap your bulkhead and frame, who would you trust to Do it? - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old April 8th, 2016, 05:38 PM
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What does a bulkhead swap run...parts and labor...just out of curiosity...
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  #22  
Old April 8th, 2016, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
I'm not trying to distort anything here. Ecr does amazing work, I know they just are more expensive than some other options.

EDIT: also not really looking for a restoration here, just a swap and reuse of the parts except bushings, hardware and other needed items.
Problem is when you do a frame and bulkhead swap on a much older truck you should do a lot of other stuff while it is easy to get to. Also some of the fasteners are going to be hard to come off and most, if not all, will need to be replaced. It is a bigger job than you may think if you want it done correctly.
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  #23  
Old April 8th, 2016, 09:58 PM
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Any other shop suggestions?
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  #24  
Old April 9th, 2016, 12:21 AM
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Busted!!! I knew it wasn't true.
I have bridge to sell you. Or some free Art Deco furniture that is worth $2500 in Sweden.
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  #25  
Old April 9th, 2016, 04:33 PM
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First in line, licked, Im your huckleberry. -Jeff
Fair enough
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  #26  
Old April 12th, 2016, 02:23 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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Disclaimer.. this is from one service manager at a dealership but may help figure price point..

I was at Land Rover Marin yesterday and the dealership was doing a frame swap on a D90 SW to a galvanized setup. Granted, no bulkhead change but he said the frame swap alone was probably 80 hours of work. So multiply by your local labor rates. That doesn't include the parts mind you.

I have no clue if he's accurate but it's what I was told.

To add my .02 cents on the ECR is expensive thing.. I bet ECR (or any other similar shop) could get that job done 20% faster than the dealership or some one man operation considering they do it all the time and have tools and jigs to get the body off. For example the dealership had to weld up an entire apparatus out of square tubing to get the body on the post lift which i'm sure they counted into the total hours. So I bet your net cost will be lower with some shops despite a slightly higher labor rate.
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  #27  
Old April 12th, 2016, 02:29 PM
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What's LR Marin's labor rate? I bet it's 140-plus. I haven't asked Mike his labor rate in several years, but I'm certain it's far under that.
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  #28  
Old April 12th, 2016, 02:37 PM
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There are lots of people who can do this job well. ECR is probably the only shop on here though I wouldn't have a zillion questions about the process, and if they are using the correct bolts, etc.

Also I think they have the galv thing down with regards to how to paint it.

In the end no one is cheap so no point being penny wise pound foolish.
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  #29  
Old April 12th, 2016, 02:43 PM
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I have zero dog in this fight and we are super busy, so we likely would not be a good fit for this customer (due to the long lead time) but if anyone wants to know what something costs they can email what they are looking for and send me some key pictures of their truck and I will do my best to get them a "photograph" estimate. I do not believe I got any photos from this customer so I wonder how we are 40% over X.

As for the time required, I give you a 90 Wagon frame swap with a running clock:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=94832aae2f


Also, if you do call or email us our prices will likely be quite a bit higher than other places. This is because we will not tell you the "best case". We have been doing this for 23 years now. Its never the "best case". We know your fuel lines are likely crap, that your exhaust likely won't come apart, that your shocks are probably too rusty to remove, that the bleeders on your brakes are likely seized, etc etc.. So what I give you is a rough estimate based on all the other projects like it we have done.
So that certainly will seem higher than shop X who gives you the best case to get you in the door.

For better or worse we are so busy we don't need to get you in the door, so you get real world numbers. You may not like them, but unless you get your buddy to do the work in exchange for beer I will put my guys up against anyone, job for job, apples to apples.

40% higher my ass.
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  #30  
Old April 12th, 2016, 02:50 PM
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Parrie Willette
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Do you have a budget in mind? Off the top of my head I would guess you would be looking at roughly $10k for a new frame & bulkhead plus another $5k labor for the swap. I would not be at all surprised if it hit the $20k mark by the time all is said and done.
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  #31  
Old May 9th, 2016, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post
I have zero dog in this fight and we are super busy, so we likely would not be a good fit for this customer (due to the long lead time) but if anyone wants to know what something costs they can email what they are looking for and send me some key pictures of their truck and I will do my best to get them a "photograph" estimate. I do not believe I got any photos from this customer so I wonder how we are 40% over X.

As for the time required, I give you a 90 Wagon frame swap with a running clock:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=94832aae2f


Also, if you do call or email us our prices will likely be quite a bit higher than other places. This is because we will not tell you the "best case". We have been doing this for 23 years now. Its never the "best case". We know your fuel lines are likely crap, that your exhaust likely won't come apart, that your shocks are probably too rusty to remove, that the bleeders on your brakes are likely seized, etc etc.. So what I give you is a rough estimate based on all the other projects like it we have done.
So that certainly will seem higher than shop X who gives you the best case to get you in the door.

For better or worse we are so busy we don't need to get you in the door, so you get real world numbers. You may not like them, but unless you get your buddy to do the work in exchange for beer I will put my guys up against anyone, job for job, apples to apples.

40% higher my ass.

Wasn't meant to be a Ding on you... But hey right back at you

When calling previously you guys were always above what I wanted to spend. You do Great work... Why be petty about it?
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  #32  
Old May 9th, 2016, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrie View Post
Do you have a budget in mind? Off the top of my head I would guess you would be looking at roughly $10k for a new frame & bulkhead plus another $5k labor for the swap. I would not be at all surprised if it hit the $20k mark by the time all is said and done.
I've got both of these things new - frame (delivered to my warehouse, w/o import duties) ~3800USD, bulkhead was around 1800USD delivered.
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  #33  
Old May 9th, 2016, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TheOneTen View Post
I've got both of these things new - frame (delivered to my warehouse, w/o import duties) ~3800USD, bulkhead was around 1800USD delivered.
$1800 for a bulkhead is a great price.
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  #34  
Old May 9th, 2016, 09:58 PM
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tim smith CT, matt brown ME.... Brian Rossini BDR auto MA.....
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no thanks whatever I tell you, you will low ball me
I would rather keep the parts in storage
good luck with your search
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  #35  
Old May 9th, 2016, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrie View Post
Do you have a budget in mind? Off the top of my head I would guess you would be looking at roughly $10k for a new frame & bulkhead plus another $5k labor for the swap. I would not be at all surprised if it hit the $20k mark by the time all is said and done.
you have your numbers backwards... Labor will far out weigh the cost of a new frame.
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  #36  
Old May 9th, 2016, 11:38 PM
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If you are just going to do a frame, the labor is not crazy, but if it needs a frame, it needs a bunch of other stuff too and you will have inevitable hang ups (try getting the big through bolts out of a bulkhead).

If you have done it before and have some idea of what you are doing, you can do a frame in two days with two people (assuming you have a lift), but realistically you are looking at 60-80 hours of shop time for a frame and that is best case.

You will also spend a least couple grand on additional parts -- brake lines, clutch lines, fuel lines, shock tower rings, probably shock towers, all the plastic clips you will break (oh you have to drill the frame for them as they don't come pre-drilled), probably a new fuel tank cradle, motor and trans mounts (even if they look ok the studs often break), hopefully the electrical connections all come apart ok, but if not, redoing the bullets (and the $50 tool to do them) is a PITA, nut plates are stupid money and they never seem to come out in one piece (the bolts snap in them), and that is just off the top of my head.

Bulkhead is not terrible, but again a ton of labor. First, you need a rivnut gun and the rivnuts (there are some 5mm ones believe it or not and the giant ones for the steering mount). In the ones I have taken apart, I have never gotten the footwell bolts to the bracket off in one piece, hopefully your dash is not rusted to dust, you will probably break some bolts off in the clips to the fenders, you will need new fender flare plugs, the down pieces to your cage are probably rusted out, the pedal tower gaskets are crazy money (assuming a bolt of two does not snap off in them -- they are special bolts and annoying to drill out), the grommet for the harness is impossible to replace (hopefully the bulkhead you bought has the same hole if not hole saw time), good luck getting the door hinges off, the clips break and they spin so out comes the drill or just plan on new hinges screws and clips, make sure to keep all the dozens of screws that hold the dash together in order -- probably want to replace all those too, hopefully the plastic binnacle is not broken (it is), oh, and then you have to get it all to line up with a bunch of shims and probably some brute force tweaking.
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  #37  
Old May 10th, 2016, 07:06 AM
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You are talking about an older truck so as stated above everything is not going to come off like you would think. The plastic clips break, riv nuts spin freely, and bolts are rusted. The problem is where do you want to stop replacing stuff. It is easy to get overwhelmed. Wiring connectors can be going bad as well as water getting into the wire sheath corroding the wire. Do you replace the wire or put everything back together and hope for the best? That doesn't even talk about the parts availability and cost to get them. There is a reason a rebuilt truck brings the money it does.
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  #38  
Old May 11th, 2016, 08:54 AM
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Michael Shea
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Our shop is in Exeter, RI and do galvanized frame swaps regularly with all factory correct parts if interested.
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  #39  
Old May 11th, 2016, 09:22 AM
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Brian Kandefer
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I agree with Mike, 9/10 times if you are doing a frame or a bulkhead everything else is crap... We have done six frame swaps since December 2014 and we have rebuilt and replaced all the axles/bushings/brakes and lines on every single one of them... Typically if you are pulling a 25 year old wiring harness out of a crusty chassis you aren't thinking about how shitty that is as well! What I am saying is that anyone thinking they are just looking at the cost of a bulkhead and labor to install it is gonna be but hurt when they actually get the bill. Mike has been doing this long enough to factor in the cost of new lines, bushings and hardware, I tell customers they don't have a choice... If we are doing the work, we are replacing all the bushings fuel and brake lines with all new hardware.
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