Hydroboost Brake Conversion. - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 4th, 2011, 05:24 PM
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Andrew J. Hutton
1993 Defender 110 200TDI
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Hydroboost Brake Conversion.

How much interest here would there be in a bolt-on hydro-boost brake assist conversion kit? Has anyone here done the conversion and able to offer up some insight into just how much of an improvement it makes? I'm in the process of working with a vendor to come up with a kit, I have both LHD and RHD 200TDI Defenders here and will have a 300TDI one shortly and would be looking for someone with a NAS V8 who would be interested in brakes that feel more like a modern vehicle than a tractor.

My goal is to ship both to the UK and North America to get volumes up enough to bring the costs into a realistic range and it will include a complete bolt-on master and booster assembly plus the hoses to plumb into the power-steering system. A proportioning valve will also likely be included to allow adjustment of front-rear brake bias.

One other thing I've been considering is fitting a remote vac booster to the clutch if there's any interest in having a light clutch pedal out there.

I've love to get feedback on other things to consider, general opinions, etc.
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  #2  
Old March 4th, 2011, 06:30 PM
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So you've never done the conversion or driven it. Your description of the stock brakes as insufficient leads one to believe that you don't have them set up correctly. Despite all of this, you expect folks to be interested in purchasing a kit from you?

I don't see the need for any upgrade beyond rear discs and vented fronts unless one is running much larger than stock tires, or the vehicle is severely overloaded.
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
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  #3  
Old March 5th, 2011, 12:31 AM
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Frank Rafka
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It exists already...right Lane
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  #4  
Old March 5th, 2011, 05:43 AM
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I converted one of my Jeeps to hydroboost and didn't feel much of an improvement. It didn't seem like it was worth the effort in the end if your stock braking system is in proper order.
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  #5  
Old March 5th, 2011, 07:07 AM
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I was thinking about offering a drag chute with my new V10 conversion kit (can be installed in 6hrs, another story) but Hydroboost sounds much cooler. Count me in........
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  #6  
Old March 5th, 2011, 10:56 AM
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Tony Sims
1984 110
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I raised the idea of converting to RRC-style hydro brakes on a few of the UK Defender boards, and got nothing but grief, so I wouldn't look for a flurry of orders from the UK.

Now that I have reversed the effects all the deferred maintenance, I have no complaints about the vacuum assisted brakes in my 300TDi-powered 110. The vacuum pump works fine and is relatively inexpensive if it fails. The 110 brakes are not quite as immediate as the hydro brakes in my RRC, but they're well up to my needs.

I do like my X-Brake much better than the stock drum parking brake.
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  #7  
Old March 5th, 2011, 11:19 AM
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Clark Bowen
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Andrew.....

Great idea.
They need better brakes.
Piss on these nay sayers.
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  #8  
Old March 6th, 2011, 03:51 PM
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Frank Rafka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
I converted one of my Jeeps to hydroboost and didn't feel much of an improvement. It didn't seem like it was worth the effort in the end if your stock braking system is in proper order.

HUH?

I installed hydroboost on my D2 with 37" Iroks and can lock my brakes at 35mph...I'm planning it on putting on my 110 when i convert the rear to disks...
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  #9  
Old March 6th, 2011, 07:23 PM
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Andrew
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I just had a Hydroboost failure in my 3/4 Suburban the other day and it made the truck undriveable and the truck had to be towed home. I have had the vacuum fail in a 90 and it was not bad, just had to press the brake peddle a little more. I had though that I might change to hydroboost before but perhaps not after this.
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  #10  
Old March 7th, 2011, 01:56 AM
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I went to the trouble of installing a hydroboost system in my D90.

I had to send my brake pedal assembly to them to custom set it up so it bolts up to the box. Then had to have custom hoses (hydraulic) made up......thank you Pendy and Bill. There is already a proportioning valve in the truck so no need to duplicate that.....just need to tap into existing brake lines (flare fittings).

I did it to improve braking and also I'm running the 2.8PS and wanted a more powerful alternator so had to get rid of the vacuum generator.

I think it does make a difference but not a huge difference......I would say 30% based on "gutt" feeling.

I drive a friends D90 with V8 and there's no doubt his is a bit "slushier". His brakes are set up well.

I think it's great idea. It IS essentially bolt on but need to make sure your power steering pump is "up to task". Depending on the system it may be a tad longer so it can bump into snorkel setup if you have one.

I say to "do it" as it is really ideal for the 110 or loaded D90's.
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  #11  
Old March 7th, 2011, 07:51 AM
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Bill Adams
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Switching from the rubber lines to braided will probably do as much to improve the feel as a Hydroboost.
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  #12  
Old March 7th, 2011, 08:41 AM
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kevin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
HUH?

I installed hydroboost on my D2 with 37" Iroks and can lock my brakes at 35mph...I'm planning it on putting on my 110 when i convert the rear to disks...

Locking your brakes is equivelent to spinning your wheels. Neither is the optimum performance gauge and both are examples of loss of control. That's why we spend so much time and effort into preventing them. Better to have some brake fade, better yet is to have an ABS system or at least a proper proportioning valve.
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  #13  
Old March 7th, 2011, 11:48 AM
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Frank Rafka
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I used that as example, my d2 is trail truck, so stopping and holding strength is very important. When hydroboost is installed correctly, it improves stopping power and decreases stopping distances, without locking up. I wouldn't use it with a ABS system, so this is a something for older trucks, that are carrying a heavy load, or a truck being set-up as heavy duty off road rig.
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  #14  
Old March 7th, 2011, 12:31 PM
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Clark Bowen
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Kevkon.....

You must have have huge wheelspin problems with that 3000 TDI
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  #15  
Old March 7th, 2011, 12:32 PM
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John B.
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Have you first driven a Defender with properly setup brakes? The brakes in my 90 are as good or better than any new car I've driven.
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  #16  
Old March 7th, 2011, 01:54 PM
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Frank Rafka
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yep and I've driven ones with bad brakes...add big tires and all bets are off. I've put hydroboost in three different LR's, 2 D1's and my D2. In each braking improved over 50%. A correctly installed hydroboost system will increased braking power, without lockup.

On a 90/110 with big meats thats loaded to bear, it can make a big difference in stopping power and stopping distance.
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  #17  
Old March 7th, 2011, 02:08 PM
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I was really addressing the OP, who has a stock 110, AFAIK.
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  #18  
Old March 7th, 2011, 02:48 PM
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Frank Rafka
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Sorry...and no kidding about the 110's...
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  #19  
Old March 7th, 2011, 04:22 PM
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Tony Sims
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevkon View Post
Locking your brakes is equivelent to spinning your wheels. Neither is the optimum performance gauge and both are examples of loss of control. That's why we spend so much time and effort into preventing them. Better to have some brake fade, better yet is to have an ABS system or at least a proper proportioning valve.
Actually, locked brakes will stop you faster. The downside is loss of steering control. ABS trades pure stopping distance for continued steering ability. Before ABS, we learned "threshold braking", which is braking hard enough to *almost* lock the brakes. It's one of those skills that have a high cost of failure; I'm pretty good at it but I still like ABS.

There is NOTHING good about brake fade. Absolutely nothing. Say it again, y'all.

A well designed brake system will be balanced well enough that a proportioning valve is not needed. "Ideal" balance is subjective, but generally speaking, it's safer to have the fronts lock first, as locking the rears can cause a spin. An adjustable proportioning valve will let you vary the front/rear bias to match the load, but you have to do some threshold braking to determine where to set the bias for the present load. This activity tends to make passengers nervous. Weight sensitive proportioning valves are used to allow some bias variation to account for loaded vs. unloaded driving without requiring the driver to adjust anything.
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
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  #20  
Old March 7th, 2011, 04:40 PM
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Frank Rafka
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Great info Tony
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