Hydraulic Drive for Exp Trailer? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 21st, 2012, 06:10 PM
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Hydraulic Drive for Exp Trailer?

Greetings, Gentlemen! Forgive the prolonged absence. I've been busy playing a lot of guitar.

If you're bored and want to weigh-in on a fun discussion... my Pops is in town this week and we're designing an expedition trailer for use with my '97 NAS D90. We have a fun idea cooking and I would love some input.

What, in your opinion, are the upsides, downsides (excluding the fact that it's probably overkill), technical considerations, and options for running a hydraulic PTO on my T-case to selectively power the wheels on an expedition trailer? This is only for use when the terrain gets sandy, muddy, etc (so, around 5 mph).

I did some searching and it looks like setting up the PTO is easy enough on the truck - if I can find the parts. So far, I haven't found and good info on connecting a motor to the diff on the trailer. What would be even better is a diff that is ready for a hydraulic connection without having to run a motor and short drive shaft.

Any thoughts? Links? Examples? Pictures of nekkid chicks holding cool guitars?
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  #2  
Old November 21st, 2012, 06:39 PM
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You would probably be better installing a very small motor on the trailer for those situations. But, if you could pull it off, it would be a neat feature.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:48 PM
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Might be tricky to do on a NAS truck with the gas tank in the way.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Might be tricky to do on a NAS truck with the gas tank in the way.
Why?

There is a place in the UK that sells LT230 PTOs that connect to a hydraulic pump. They are engaged with a rod actuator. You will need a hydraulic reservoir, the plumbing and a set of disconnects in the rear, like you'd find on a tractor.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:33 PM
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hydraulic drive motors on the trailer that you could engage when you need 'em????

plus you could use the hyd system for a winch etc...



problem I see with a powered trailer is in its hook up and perhaps some tendency to overtake the truck?? perhaps with modern sensors and hydraulic valves you could setup a scenario whereby if the angles got past a certain point, it would close off or slow down the drive motors?? a fun (drive)train of thought at least!
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Why?

There is a place in the UK that sells LT230 PTOs that connect to a hydraulic pump. They are engaged with a rod actuator. You will need a hydraulic reservoir, the plumbing and a set of disconnects in the rear, like you'd find on a tractor.
True, going Hydraulic would mitigate the shaft to the back issue.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:52 PM
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The problem I see is that unless you match speeds identically with the truck you can be pushing or creating a greater drag than the trailer un powered. The hydro pumps on my mower will create a drag unless the pressure valve is released or you have power going to the pump. I guess you could have a remote throttle for the drive to control the speed of the trailer and a remote dump valve set up so that you wouldn't create drag when you were not putting power to the wheels?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:52 PM
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Found it. Here
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Old November 21st, 2012, 10:55 PM
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Thanks for all the input so far, gents.

We've been drawing schematics for this all night. What fun!

Right now we're planning to mount the Hydraulic motor next to the rear diff and will use the 4 bolts on the bottom of the diff to mount the bracket.

The challenge now is to figure out a clutch system.

This would all be a lot easier if someone would just design and build a bolt-in 3rd member that runs on hydraulic power. With a built in clutch, of course.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 12:31 AM
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:42 AM
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That PTO pump is designed to power a hydraulic winch.
Are you going to get the flow and pressure you need from that PTO to make an effective drive unit on the trailer?
.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 08:25 AM
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That first four pto system comes in two flavors: "standard" for pumps up to 26cc and "advanced" for pumps up to 60cc. "Very heavy industrial or extreme winch challenge vehicles" Would it be enough to run a trailer? I dont know.. You might have to be realistic, with the expectations of power vs speed vs hydraulic pump size vs that clutch thing.


This place has alot of hydraulic stuff and also tractor parts, motors.. alot of everything actually. A fun catalog to browse.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/hydraulic.asp

belt or direct drive clutches down on this page for up to 1500 ft/lbs!
http://www.rosesmarine.com/products_clutches.html
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 07:24 AM
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For purposes of driving trailer wheels torque is going to be more of a factor than speed. If you're needing the extra assist from the trailer wheels it's highly unlikely you're going to be moving faster than a few mph.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:41 AM
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Tom has it right, I'd design it to operate at 20mph and below. You may need some wheel speed for muddy or slick situations, but this would be primarily for low speed situations/recoveries/technical areas??


Speed control of hyd motors:
http://hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/...ydraulicPumpsM


Now how do you design it to follow the speed of the trucks wheels?? Sensors on the pinion flanges and some sort of feedback mechanism I guess?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 11:26 AM
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If it is only for the occasional use in tight spots perhaps a electric motor in the trailer would work and be easier to set up?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
That PTO pump is designed to power a hydraulic winch.
Are you going to get the flow and pressure you need from that PTO to make an effective drive unit on the trailer?
.
Not sure yet. For the speed it would be used (which is a slow crawl) I think the answer is probably "yes".

Quote:
Originally Posted by revtor View Post
Tom has it right, I'd design it to operate at 20mph and below. You may need some wheel speed for muddy or slick situations, but this would be primarily for low speed situations/recoveries/technical areas??
Yes. Only when it's required and at very slow speeds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by revtor View Post
Now how do you design it to follow the speed of the trucks wheels?? Sensors on the pinion flanges and some sort of feedback mechanism I guess?
I doubt I would ever use it in areas where there is enough traction for that to matter at 1-3mph. Still, it is a consideration. I think the plan would be to set it at a fixed speed that is equal to the truck's crawl speed in low range and 1st gear at 1500RPMs - or something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by headdamage View Post
If it is only for the occasional use in tight spots perhaps a electric motor in the trailer would work and be easier to set up?
That's also a possibility. A starter motor for a large diesel engine would easily provide enough torque and might be properly sealed. The idea is for something to provide extra traction in small bursts, as needed to get through a sticky spot.

The more I look into this, the more it seems like I might want to just use a drive shaft. But... I hate to toss in the towel. Most of the reason for doing this is for the technical challenge.

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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:28 AM
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That's also a possibility. A starter motor for a large diesel engine would easily provide enough torque and might be properly sealed.
You'd need to work out some good gearing to use a starter motor. They aren't designed to work at slow speed (especially for more than a minute or two) and will burn out before long if they are.
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