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  #101  
Old January 19th, 2015, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilburner View Post
Sure thing! I am using them on the back on my rover project as well. The thickness opens up a whole lot of caliper applications and they should look "factory". Only thing is I am not sure if they fit into a 15 inch rim, but that is more a function of the caliper than the rotor. Putting them on the backside of the hub only moves the rotor further inboard and gives you more caliper clearance.

Edit: Another thing that came to mind while re-reading this thread. I have inquired with all the manufacturers of aftermarket 14 bolt hubs and none of them were able to supply a blank without holes drilled. The 5X5.5 versions also did not have enough diameter to run the 5X6.5 bolt pattern.
Cheers... as the two rotors are within a few mm of each other both on OD & hat height, working with the 15" rims should be no problem using the Chevy 3/4t calipers & brackets.

Did a quick sketch of the Yota bolt pattern, Chevy rotor ID & LR bolt pattern.... bit close between the Yota bolt holes and the ID but should be ok. Did you use the LR studs to hold the rotor on ?
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  #102  
Old January 20th, 2015, 08:20 AM
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If you look up the part on rockauto.com, there is a listing with a photo showing all the dimensions. The rotor bore diameter probably needs to be enlarged, but this is a really quick job on a lathe or mill. I don't think there is enough room in the rotor hat to push through the rover pattern and run the studs through both the hub and rotor at the rover pattern dimension, I didn't really look into it as the rover studs aren't designed for it anyways (not enough knurl length) and that's not how LR did it. I am drilling the 5X144 pattern on the backside of the hub and securing with socket head cap screws, and the studs will only be through the flange of the hub.
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  #103  
Old January 20th, 2015, 09:23 AM
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That sounds like the proper way to do it JL.
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  #104  
Old January 20th, 2015, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilburner View Post
I am drilling the 5X144 pattern on the backside of the hub and securing with socket head cap screws, and the studs will only be through the flange of the hub.
OK... I see.... so your counter boring the hub flange for the head of the stud too ?

Maybe there is enough meat on the back of the hub to turn it's diameter down a bit to give the heads of the cap screws a bit more material. Did look a bit thin to the ID when I drew it up.
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  #105  
Old January 20th, 2015, 11:02 AM
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I have two sets of hubs in the shop, 14 bolt and Eaton, and both would need some minor machining on the backside to get additional clearance. I am not sure on the Dana 50/60 hubs. IIRC I bored the rotors out to 4.75 inches and machined the backside accordingly. The bolt pattern is 5.66 inches, and I had all kinds of room for the cap screws.
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  #106  
Old January 20th, 2015, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilburner View Post
I have two sets of hubs in the shop, 14 bolt and Eaton, and both would need some minor machining on the backside to get additional clearance. I am not sure on the Dana 50/60 hubs. IIRC I bored the rotors out to 4.75 inches and machined the backside accordingly. The bolt pattern is 5.66 inches, and I had all kinds of room for the cap screws.
OK.. I was just working off the bore of the Chevy rotor....
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  #107  
Old January 20th, 2015, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
That sounds like the proper way to do it JL.
There isn't really a right way, both will work.... I'm leaning towards the van rotors on the outside as it leaves all the machine shop (turning) work on the hub. The rotors will just need the holes putting in them and they get held on with the wheel.
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  #108  
Old January 21st, 2015, 10:46 AM
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I dont think that drilling 4 more holes in an 8 lug rotor is the right way. The rotor hat will be seriously weakened... 12 holes in a rotor hat face sounds like a failure waiting to happen. A rotor disk sheared off a rotor hat would be a bad time!
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  #109  
Old January 21st, 2015, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
I dont think that drilling 4 more holes in an 8 lug rotor is the right way. The rotor hat will be seriously weakened... 12 holes in a rotor hat face sounds like a failure waiting to happen. A rotor disk sheared off a rotor hat would be a bad time!
Those were my thoughts too....

I'm also waiting on the dimensions of a Chevy rotor brake bracket, once I get them I can draw it up & modify to suit the slightly larger E350 rotor. Can then use that as a basis for a front bracket
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  #110  
Old January 22nd, 2015, 02:03 PM
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Just to toss in my €0.02 where it does not belong, have been following this thread with interest. The brake rotor part has been very interesting to follow, also. I kept wondering if anyone offered rotors with undrilled hats, and then recalled that a long time ago, when I had several Lotus cars (this British stuff is all an affliction), we got undrilled rotor hats from a place here called, Coleman Racing Products ( http://www.colemanracing.com ) to which we attached the rotors that would fit the (limited) space, after having a local machinist drill the hats to the needed PCD. However, these rotor hats were made of 'aluminium' and not iron. Also, as they are "racing" parts, would one presume that they are not applicable ?

As I recall, Coleman was a neat place to deal with as they offered the rotors to be made to the customer's specifications...

Perhaps there might be an idea in all this ?

ETA: Here's a one piece hat and rotor they offer, built to your specs : http://www.colemanracing.com/Integra...tor-P4809.aspx

"One piece hat and rotors are made to your specifications. Castings are designed to cover a broad range of applications. The disc can be machined to .600 max with a diameter of 13". If your disc requires sizes other than those shown as in step or counter bore etc. please provide a blueprint or sample. - See more at: http://www.colemanracing.com/Integra....0j7XczVW.dpuf "
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  #111  
Old January 24th, 2015, 10:01 PM
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Can you guys help me understand somethings?


What is the basis for the "the hub rotor is swischeese, there for bad" idea? What are the physics behind your thoughts? What are the loads you are basing your thoughts on?

With regards to the drilled rotors, same question....

I don't claim to be smart. Never did...

But I am a thinker.

Heres my thoughts, take them for what you will, but please educate me....

"Slip over the hub" brake rotors work on two principles. Friction, the torque of the lug nuts/studs squeezing the rim to the rotor then to the hub. The is the same friction that makes a clutch work. (spring squeezes the disk between flywheel/pressure plate) They also work on sheer. In the case of the rotor Andy posted, double sheer. The rotor is trapped between the wheel and hub and tries to sheer any lug contact after it overcomes the clamp load of the wheel to hub (i.e.: plate load when speaking in clutch terms)

FWIW, the factory rover brake rotor works in single sheer (bolted to the back side of the hub) with (what I estimate as I type, but could verify if I walk to my shop) smaller bolts than the 9/16 studs I have shown in my photos.

If I read correctly, the ideas I have presented = Bad. Factory Rover = Better than bad....

Move on to the swiss cheese rotor...

The factory 3/4 ton chevy (every U.S. drum to disc conversion) rotor had casted in "slots" into the rotor hat. (see the photos I have posted) This disc works without fail.

The rotor Andy posted, I have pics as well..., is a solid design. If I read correctly, drilling extra holes in the mounting flange, two of which overlap, makes the rotor a instrument of death. WHY? What is the logic? (remember, chevy rotor has ~50% less metal holding the disc (friction surface) to the hat (where the rotor mounts the hub).

Now lets bring in "race rotor" logic. This rotor hat uses six 3/8 bolts in single sheer to attach a rotor to the hat (race only, but apply the logic) and many, many KOH racers use this unit with no failure.

So, if I am to assume the internets are korect, only factory parts from [fillintheblank] application can be used safely, and any modification is asking for immediate death.

Guys, I am far from advocating that anyone should do something they do not feel comfortable with. I would NEVER advocate that any of what I have posted is safe. I am not an engineer, I have no liability umbrella that will cover your risk. But really, think about it....

With regard to the ideas I have presented... Other than rhetoric, what specifically is wrong with the ideas I have presented? Im not offended by the ideas against mine, just want to know what the basis is for not doing what I plan to do.

Rover studs 5/8 vs 9/16

D50/D60 (heck even D44) are larger bearings/spindles (i.e.: more capable of higher loads)

Brake rotors are larger diameter (i.e.: less caliper clamping force to stop due to larger lever the clamp force acts on)

Rover roters mounted in single sheer vs Dana stuff mounted in double.

Im not trying to poke a stick in anyones eye, just asking for your perspective....

Cheers!!
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  #112  
Old January 24th, 2015, 11:50 PM
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Ruthiford, there is nothing wrong with mounting the rotor on the back of the hub... But when your paying $100/hr machine shop time (live in a small town) keeping it simple, keeps the bills down
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  #113  
Old January 26th, 2015, 10:53 AM
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http://www.ezaccessory.com/Wheel_Ada...1_5_p/st25.htm

A lower cost choice if you want longer studs with a slip-on brake rotor.

Personally, I would do anything I could to not use a backside bolted rotor. It is such a huge PITA for maintenance.
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  #114  
Old January 26th, 2015, 11:02 AM
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Ruthiford,

I don't have any engineering calculations to back up my sentiment but if you imagine the hat of an 8 lug rotor with 4 more holes drilled in it, it's apparent that its a pretty cobbled together solution.

Maybe I just appreciate design more than most, but I would never put something like that on my truck. Let alone in a safety critical application.

Also, to add just a little engineering behind it. The 8 lug rotor is designed to be held in place with a snug fitting 8 holes over 8 bolts. We are now reducing that to 5 bolts, thereby reducing both the clamping force applied to the rotor and also the "shear" resistance. Now we're also adding 4 more holes to the rotor face, further reducing the amount of surface area contact between the rotor and hub/wheel (reduced clamping friction) and reducing the amount of structural integrity around the 5 bolts that are being used.

No thanks

If you had a 1 ton pickup, would you drive around with 4 of the 8 lug nuts removed from each front wheel? I'm sure it would be "fine", right?
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  #115  
Old January 26th, 2015, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
http://www.ezaccessory.com/Wheel_Ada...1_5_p/st25.htm

A lower cost choice if you want longer studs with a slip-on brake rotor.

Personally, I would do anything I could to not use a backside bolted rotor. It is such a huge PITA for maintenance.
Winner..... winner..... those look ideal, esp since my beadlock rims have really thick centers. Even on the LR hubs they need the extra long 65mm Wolf studs

And I also like the idea of simple maintenance too
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  #116  
Old January 28th, 2015, 08:27 PM
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A few drive line thoughts.... As I'll be running a 5.3 & crawler box I was thinking about my drive shafts, or lack there off. I'll need to be ordering a front & rear, prob from TW. So, plan is to convert the t'case outputs to 1350 yolks, get a set of DC 1350 props with the 1350/1310 adaptor joints to LR flanges at the axle end. Then I can just swap the 1350/1310 joint to a 1350 when I roll my 609 axles under the truck.
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  #117  
Old March 6th, 2016, 02:27 AM
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So, to bring this thread back.... been looking at the 99-04 F250/350 unit bearings for a rear axle build. Looking at them they'll work well for redrilling as they have flat backs unlike some of the older D60 hubs. Weld on bearing pockets are available for both 3" and 3.5" axle tubes so makes building an axle quite easy, Currie makes heavy duty 9" centres for a reasonable price, so would have to decide if assembling centre and tubes is worth the effort or just buy a Ruffstuff housing....
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  #118  
Old March 11th, 2016, 12:06 AM
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Had a few minutes spare and drew up a drilling jig for the 99-04 unit bearings to convert from the 8 on 170mm to LR 5 on 6.5". Looks like I'll just need to fill 3 of the original 14mm stud holes before drilling for the new 16mm studs. The one at 12 o'clock will get completely drilled out but is needed to pilot for the new stud hole. the two at the bottom just run into the side of the existing holes a little.

Now looking for some cheap used hubs now to play with
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  #119  
Old March 11th, 2016, 08:04 AM
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Why not keep 8 lug? There are a ton more wheel selection to choose from.

Nice way to go from 8 to 5 lug Rover tho!

Edit - re-read the beginning where you have $3k bead locks in Rover pattern.
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