How long to install Safety Designs External Cage? - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Join the Defender Source Community Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old August 15th, 2016, 06:04 PM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 D90, 88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,174
How long to install Safety Designs External Cage?

Let's assume very good working knowledge of the D90. No holes in fenders (yet). Full external cage. How long did it take you?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old August 15th, 2016, 06:08 PM
rovertrader's Avatar
rovertrader
Status: Online
Dale
Fish Taco 90, 109 Coiler S/T 5-door
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Marshville, NC USA
Posts: 4,364
Would love to trade you a set of NAS outer wings for an uncut set. Usually the NAS ones are 3x uncut, but doing a Series coiler sans cage...
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #3  
Old August 15th, 2016, 06:17 PM
Ash's Avatar
Ash
Status: Offline
Ash Heller
6.0 LS 110
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 616
I typically bill around 10 hours on the install.

-Ash
__________________
Geared Restoration Co.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

352-572-3236

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old August 15th, 2016, 06:27 PM
JimC's Avatar
JimC
Status: Offline
Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 7,131
Registry
I could see doing it in 10 hours in a equipped shop with experienced staff. I did it myself in about 20-25 hours of very deliberate work (lots of checking and double checking) with an install on a new truck. It goes faster as part of a project because you have to remove a lot of parts on an already-built vehicle. For instance, it is much easier to get the b-pillar hoop into a truck when the roof is off or at least before the seats go in.
__________________
Jim Cheney

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 15th, 2016, 07:02 PM
dave_lucas
Status: Offline
Dave Lucas
None
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CO USA
Posts: 2,891
If you need a hand let me know and if I am free would be happy to help.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 15th, 2016, 08:02 PM
rijosho's Avatar
rijosho
Status: Offline
Joshua
1995 Black ST - Rhinolined edition
Research Assistant/Eagle Eyes
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,557
Registry
Cvc had a great thread with pics of his install from years ago. Let's see if I can find it.
__________________
Quote:
I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 15th, 2016, 08:05 PM
rijosho's Avatar
rijosho
Status: Offline
Joshua
1995 Black ST - Rhinolined edition
Research Assistant/Eagle Eyes
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,557
Registry
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...cage-8202.html

I thought he had another with a link to a library of pics of his install (and the huge gaping hole he made) but I don't see it now.
__________________
Quote:
I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 16th, 2016, 10:42 AM
Capt Milks's Avatar
Capt Milks
Status: Offline
Mike
Defender V-8, Defender 2.25
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1,792
Are you planning on doing the full exo cage or more like the SW NAS D90's? The full cage requires 6 holes in the metal and can be a bit unnerving to do. If you follow the install manual it is pretty simple and Ash's estimate is probably good. That is if you do not run into problems with the fender brackets.
__________________
Land Rover 110
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 16th, 2016, 07:11 PM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 D90, 88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,174
I am doing the full exo. I am sure I will run into my fair share of issues as I have a lot of modifications that will need to be adjusted (For instance the snorkel is too close, I have rear corner protectors that slip over the ends of the cross member that I want to retain, and I will have to remove the top of the bed cover that covers the drawer and modify that too). So I have my work cut out for me--it is just that we only have two cars (that run...) and I want to plan accordingly... I'll plan to do it over a weekend and take a day off work to be sure--I can always use the day off to play if I finish early :-).

Thanks to everyone for the advice--I appreciate it. Dave, I'll let you know when I plan on it--I think Mike and Keith may be around to help down a few beers as well... I am planning to do the bulkhead (inner fender) brackets first and then the rear corner and internal brackets ahead of time--then it should be quite easy... (wishful thinking). Since I built it all from scratch, I have no fear with cutting the body--I'll just try my hardest not to f it up!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 20th, 2016, 06:29 PM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 D90, 88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,174
I found a pretty good write up from MudSux on his 110--pretty well described. Cage portion starts here: http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...tml#post382745
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 26th, 2016, 07:45 PM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 D90, 88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,174
So I laid out the components in prep to do the cage tomorrow and read through the instructions. Instructions is a very generous word for them--they suck so bad, it is ridiculous. And I have 7 bags, labeled FK1-FK7 that are filled with bolts and brackets but no reference to what they are, how many I should have, or where they go. Not even a reference in the instructions to the bags. It isn't that I can't figure things out--just a comment on the instructions. It's like they are written for installers that have done 10 of them previously, not for someone doing their first.

And I have (4) foam rubber rectangular gaskets. Don't have a clue where they go. This is going to be fun.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 26th, 2016, 09:32 PM
AdamSanta85's Avatar
AdamSanta85
Status: Offline
Adam
1991 D90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Sayville, NY
Posts: 1,024
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis View Post
So I laid out the components in prep to do the cage tomorrow and read through the instructions. Instructions is a very generous word for them--they suck so bad, it is ridiculous. And I have 7 bags, labeled FK1-FK7 that are filled with bolts and brackets but no reference to what they are, how many I should have, or where they go. Not even a reference in the instructions to the bags. It isn't that I can't figure things out--just a comment on the instructions. It's like they are written for installers that have done 10 of them previously, not for someone doing their first.

And I have (4) foam rubber rectangular gaskets. Don't have a clue where they go. This is going to be fun.
I agree on the install instructions. Send me a PM with your email and I can send you some pictures that Safety Designs sent me that should help in some ways. I am doing a NAS style cage but the front should be similar enough.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 29th, 2016, 10:58 PM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 D90, 88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,174
I ran into a few difficulties but nothing that couldn't be surpassed with a grinder, mill and welder. Some of the holes didn't line up quite right (but they lined up better than I thought they would!) and, oh yeah, I fucking hate rust. Sorry kids--had to say it. Could barely get the bulkhead bolt out but fortunately I have a slide hammer. But the entire inside of the bulkhead outrigger where the bolt is was rusting. I cleaned out as much rust as I could and cut out all the structurally unsound rust and laid in a patch. And the bonnet holder was near breaking when I took it off, so I had to re-weld that. And I had some modifications of body armor that bolted to where the cage was supposed to on the rear cross member so I had to remake those (portable band saw to the rescue). Long story short, it took me about 24 hours over 2-1/2 days. Beat me to heck as I really feel it in my bones. I still need to modify the snorkel (it needs to be compressed to make room for the cage which I did tonight and I have to re-weld it's mounts...and figure out how to mount my roof rack--probably with some sort of clamp onto the rack, but the truck is up and running :-)...always something. I'll have to get a galv chassis some day...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Roofrack.JPG
Views:	98
Size:	127.9 KB
ID:	156662  
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 30th, 2016, 06:32 AM
speedpin's Avatar
speedpin
Status: Offline
Adam
1986 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 1,818
Registry
Great work. Looks great and might save your life, worth the effort
__________________
~ Semper Fidelis ~
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 30th, 2016, 11:26 AM
AdamSanta85's Avatar
AdamSanta85
Status: Offline
Adam
1991 D90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Sayville, NY
Posts: 1,024
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis View Post
I ran into a few difficulties but nothing that couldn't be surpassed with a grinder, mill and welder. Some of the holes didn't line up quite right (but they lined up better than I thought they would!) and, oh yeah, I fucking hate rust. Sorry kids--had to say it. Could barely get the bulkhead bolt out but fortunately I have a slide hammer. But the entire inside of the bulkhead outrigger where the bolt is was rusting. I cleaned out as much rust as I could and cut out all the structurally unsound rust and laid in a patch. And the bonnet holder was near breaking when I took it off, so I had to re-weld that. And I had some modifications of body armor that bolted to where the cage was supposed to on the rear cross member so I had to remake those (portable band saw to the rescue). Long story short, it took me about 24 hours over 2-1/2 days. Beat me to heck as I really feel it in my bones. I still need to modify the snorkel (it needs to be compressed to make room for the cage which I did tonight and I have to re-weld it's mounts...and figure out how to mount my roof rack--probably with some sort of clamp onto the rack, but the truck is up and running :-)...always something. I'll have to get a galv chassis some day...
Looks great!

Did you remove the front fenders completely or did you just remove the outer parts (where A pillar posts go) while leaving the inner attached to the body?

Trying to work up the nerve to start cutting on mine. I need to cut the front fenders and remove the bulkhead inside.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 30th, 2016, 02:56 PM
Arcadeus's Avatar
Arcadeus
Status: Offline
Mark Bichin
97 NAS Station Wagon LE
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,209
Registry
Looks great. That's the route I want to go one day.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old August 30th, 2016, 10:11 PM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 D90, 88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,174
So I took off the outside fender skin and I strongly recommend this. I took off the entire fender when I fixed the upper bulkhead rust on the A pillar (I hate fucking rust). Taking off the skin I was guessing way easier and you know what? It is way easier. You have to remove the washer and radiator resevoirs (no big deal) and then squeeze out the heater intake duct. Easier when it is sitting in the sun, but possible cold. You have to yard up on the upper fender a little and push down the edge, but that is how I get mine out. And once out (on the passengers side) you can reach all the bolts--the run along the upper ridge/seam on the inside. And take off the wheel arch-- you can reach the bolts through there on the vertical sides. You have to reach through the fender air intake openings, but they are all reachable.

They say that you align the plate at the edges of the top and back of the upper fender skin, but I found you leave a generous gap at the vertical edge, maybe an additional 1/4" or so. The dimensions that they give between supports is no joke--get those right. One side of my truck is 1/3" longer and then one side of my bolts didn't align . So, start the measurements at the front and work themselves back--and if you are 1/4" off between the sides at the back, no one will ever know. I used come alongs to get every thing in line to get the bolts through and it worked the treat. Occasional a screwdriver through the bolt plates to temporarily align them (220, 221--whatever it takes) . I worked smart and quick, and can be a bit cocky--but I don't think I could do it in 10 hours. I would tell anyone that first time allow 20-30 hours from tip to tail (including reading/planning) and I would also say it is totally doable for a enthusiast. That said, Ash's `10 hours is awesome and I would go to him if I was around him--he has been around here enough to gather a lot of kudos. That is knowing how to install them for sure. Loads of cutting pristine body panels. Screw up and you will know it. I did pretty good--I cut all the cutouts right, but my die grinder did touch the body when I had to cut the rail/caping right under the window--it is the capping that faces down (for maybe a soft top?) and it has to be cut. I tried relaxing it up but I'm serious, it has to be cut. If you have it, it is really sort of challenging to cut--you could with a dremel too, but go ahead an add an hour. I used a small cutting wheel on a die grinder and I nicked 1 out of 16 vertical cuts good... and one kiss :-)

Oveall love it. Suggestions on cage clamps to mount supports for my roof rack, pretty please?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old August 31st, 2016, 07:04 AM
AdamSanta85's Avatar
AdamSanta85
Status: Offline
Adam
1991 D90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Sayville, NY
Posts: 1,024
Registry
Thanks for the detailed reply. Sorry to keep beating a dead horse with this but want to make sure i have it clear.

Remove green arrow fender flare
Remove red arrow outer fender
Do not remove blue arrow inner fender (headlight etc)
Do not go flush to back edge of fender go 1/4" forward.
Do go flush at horizontal edge
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-1148492202.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	501.1 KB
ID:	156748  
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old August 31st, 2016, 08:06 AM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 D90, 88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,174
Yes on all the above. It really facilitates the disassembly and it is the only thing that really needs to come off. A slide hammer truly helped get the bulkhead bolt out (FYI--it can be tight and if you have sliders, you may not have access to the opposite end to push it out...). I accessed the top bolts through the vent hole on top.

So the "edges" are rounded so it is a little difficult to align it properly. So yes, 1/4" on the vert edge and I did file a little more from the bottom horizontal edge, so I would say down maybe 1/8" or so. I didn't hand file as the aluminum is so flexy--if you have a die grinder with a metal cutting wheel like a chain saw sharpening bit, it will make make quick work of small shavings to get things to fit.

To get the wheel arches off, I used a very small diameter philips screw driver (or any sort of punch) to punch out the plastic pins and, with the screw driver stuck in the little hole, I wiggled out the rivets (or whatever they are called). I reused a lot of them, but they are also cheap--I got like 60 of the for $10 or so off ebay. Good to have around as you will loose some of the pins I am sure.

Some of the mounting plates wouldn't accept the bolts. I ran the bolts in from the back side of the plate to show where the actual mounting plate was obscuring the bolt--this is good to do before things are on the truck--and then just use the die grinder to relax the plate where the obstruction is. I bought my cage off a buddy so it is slightly older style (the rear supports that go through the tub and attach to the rear crossmember are 1 piece and I think the newer style is 2 piece) so they may have fixed the interference through quality control. Overall, excellent fit and finish--really nice cage.

Feel free to PM me too if you have questions--I'll do my best to help. Nothing was "difficult", just time consuming.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 31st, 2016, 09:08 AM
AdamSanta85's Avatar
AdamSanta85
Status: Offline
Adam
1991 D90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Sayville, NY
Posts: 1,024
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis View Post
Yes on all the above. It really facilitates the disassembly and it is the only thing that really needs to come off. A slide hammer truly helped get the bulkhead bolt out (FYI--it can be tight and if you have sliders, you may not have access to the opposite end to push it out...). I accessed the top bolts through the vent hole on top.

So the "edges" are rounded so it is a little difficult to align it properly. So yes, 1/4" on the vert edge and I did file a little more from the bottom horizontal edge, so I would say down maybe 1/8" or so. I didn't hand file as the aluminum is so flexy--if you have a die grinder with a metal cutting wheel like a chain saw sharpening bit, it will make make quick work of small shavings to get things to fit.

To get the wheel arches off, I used a very small diameter philips screw driver (or any sort of punch) to punch out the plastic pins and, with the screw driver stuck in the little hole, I wiggled out the rivets (or whatever they are called). I reused a lot of them, but they are also cheap--I got like 60 of the for $10 or so off ebay. Good to have around as you will loose some of the pins I am sure.

Some of the mounting plates wouldn't accept the bolts. I ran the bolts in from the back side of the plate to show where the actual mounting plate was obscuring the bolt--this is good to do before things are on the truck--and then just use the die grinder to relax the plate where the obstruction is. I bought my cage off a buddy so it is slightly older style (the rear supports that go through the tub and attach to the rear crossmember are 1 piece and I think the newer style is 2 piece) so they may have fixed the interference through quality control. Overall, excellent fit and finish--really nice cage.

Feel free to PM me too if you have questions--I'll do my best to help. Nothing was "difficult", just time consuming.
Great. Thank you. I will def PM you if I need help. Mine shouldn't be as bad as yours as it is a NAS SW style cage. My biggest concern is getting the fenders right, and not messing up the interior removing the bulkhead.

thanks
Adam
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
cage

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Internal part of external internal safety devices cage defenderholty Wanted 8 May 27th, 2014 10:20 AM
Safety Devices Cage install complete Capt Milks Defender Technical Discussions 7 August 7th, 2011 07:27 PM
2004 Safety Devices Full External Cage $2300 cbkearney For Sale - Parts 14 December 15th, 2009 03:45 PM
Safety Devices Full External Cage Install D-90 JPRO576 Defender Technical Discussions 4 December 18th, 2008 09:32 AM
Roll Cage CAD Designs Wolf Fabrication Misc. Chit-Chat 50 November 25th, 2008 11:00 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Copyright