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  #1  
Old March 31st, 2007, 10:41 AM
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How LONG have I got? Rust Opinions?

Hi,

The majority of my underbody does not actually look THAT bad, for a truck that has sat outside its whole life. I recently put on a Stainless Steel Muffler, and a Rover North Galvinized Skid Plate. It has been driven in the salt in the winter, and has had several off-road adventures in the salty sand at the beach. Each time I tried to wash it good - including the underbody and wheel wells. But I probably never got 100% of the salt off, plus the years are starting to catch up to it.

I am posting some pictures of the rear bumper and rear underbody of my truck. My shop says that there is still pleanty of structural rigidity left in that bumper..................what I was kind of always thinking was to divert more money into to keeping the truck mechanically sound (which I believe I have), and replace pieces, as needed, due to rust.

So educate me:

1) for those that have had major battles with rust - how long to I have on this rear bumber once it starts to look like this.
2) How big of a deal is it to replace this rear bumper when the time comes......It looks like a pretty substantial piece.
3) for those of us with our trucks outside, is it commen for the rear bumper to start looking like this?
4) How easily can pieces of the underbody be replaced as they rust. Can you really do things individually? Or have I made a big mistake in thinking all these years that I could do so.

Thanks,

Flagg
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  #2  
Old March 31st, 2007, 12:43 PM
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Jim Cheney
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Well, If I was to perform an internet diagnosis on your chassis, I'd say its done.

You'll be able to drive on it for a while, and there is no reason not to keep up on the mechanicals like you have been doing - anything replaced now (especially higher quality stainless stuff) will still be good for re-use.

Plenty of people have had luck replacing a crossmember here, a tube outrigger there, and using a piecemeal approach to keeping the chassis sound, but I personally cant go for that. To me it always seems like you are just trying to stay one step ahead of a big problem.

My course of action (which you can take as advice if you like) would be:
- Start removing extraneous stuff like the rear bumper right now. Clean them up, see if they can be salvaged, repaired, maybe galvanized, but at least repainted. No sense in letting a part go to crap.
- Keep up on your mechanical maintenance.
- Start saving/planning for a galvanized chassis. When the time is right, perform a body swap. If you can plan it right, you might only have the truck off the road for a month or two if you do all the work yourself. If you can swap a skid plate, you can swap the body.

By the way, when you say bumper - do you mean the tubular bumper or the rear crossmember? The rear bumper comes off with a few (some surely rusted) bolts. The x-member takes a bit more effort...
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  #3  
Old March 31st, 2007, 05:08 PM
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Your fine. That will buff right off.
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  #4  
Old March 31st, 2007, 07:14 PM
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EDWARD BAHAW
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Slick it with used oil!
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  #5  
Old March 31st, 2007, 10:47 PM
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Donald McDowell
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one word "Ospho" great stuff for rust you can find it at Ace Hardware
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  #6  
Old April 1st, 2007, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caribsurf
one word "Ospho" great stuff for rust you can find it at Ace Hardware

What does that do?
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  #7  
Old April 1st, 2007, 09:53 AM
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Donald McDowell
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It's amazing stuff. It comes in a liquid and you brush it on. First you brush or sand away any loose dust and then apply Ospho. Probably do a couple of coats according to the directions. Ospho converts the rust into a very solid and strong component (I am not a chemist so forgot exactly what it is called) and then it turns black. You can then prime and paint knowing the rust has been halted.

easy to use and works great. I was able to find it at Ace Hardware
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  #8  
Old April 1st, 2007, 10:35 AM
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Rust treatments are great, but there is a hole in that crossmember, and there is about to be two. There are also a couple places in that bumber that will be holes as soon they are poked with a screwdriver.

A rule of thumb with rust is that you can't see most of it. Once you can see the damage, the rust has already taken hold. I'm willing to bet that chassis has worse problems that cant be seen.

The 3700 for a galvanized NAS chassis from DAP or someone will start to look like a bargain after you buy a rear crossmember, pay to have it installed, and take care of the other needs that will certainly crop up.

This is where evilfij jumps in and says that the chassis just needs to be patch and is good for at least 10 more years.

I've got memorial day weekend free if Bert wants to arrange a chassis swap party. It could easily be done in 4 days by several guys with the right preparation.
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  #9  
Old April 1st, 2007, 06:40 PM
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WOW! All different responses. From the chassis being shot - to just put some treatment on the rust.

The rest of the chassis really does not look that bad...........but I have heard the same thing as Jim Says - that "once you see the damage the rust has set in............"

So I can go a while by replaceing pieces as they rust out......But I need to decide if I am keeping this truck forever. I think I am...........so eventually the full galvinized chassis would be the ticket. How many people on this page have done this? Are their any drawbacks (I can not imagine that their are). Will the fiberglass top and roof rack ever fit right again?

So $3700 for the chassis - and how much if I have a shop do it? The offer to have a chassis swap party also sounds fun..... How much if I drive it up to Maine and have Mike at East Coast Rover do it? Maybe convert it into a hard top at the same time. Would I be spending more than the truck is worth?

Problem as always is money......I will have to save a while for this swap. Hopefully the chassis holds up for a while.......But it seems like something I am going to have to address.........

Flagg
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  #10  
Old April 1st, 2007, 06:53 PM
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Did anyone try Rovers North galvanized chassis? Whats the difference from DAP chassis?
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  #11  
Old April 1st, 2007, 10:38 PM
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My suggestion would be to use the rust converter to slow the progression (its cheap anyway) and use the borrowed time to save for the Galvanized Chassis. I also don't think it is worth replacing just the rear cross member. It will not be cost effective and if not already, I am sure it is only a matter of time till the outriggers start rotting, and behind the trans cross member starts discintigrating. This would also be a great time to replace your bushings, fuel lines and brake lines. If you do the swap yourself it will only cost you a few thousand to have a long lasting and sturdy D90 with a lot of new parts and a lot of life left in it.
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  #12  
Old April 1st, 2007, 11:07 PM
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Andrew is right on as far as I'm concerned. Just start the planning process right now. I'm sure the truck wont snap in half for many years, but thats no reason to put your head in the sand. The galvanized chassis will add value to the truck for sure - its one of those things that keeps the condition in the "excellent' category.

Here is a possible breakdown of the costs:
Used chassis from ECR or other (excellent condition) - 1000
sand blasting/stripping - 3-400
galvanizing - 400
stainless brake lines - 300
stainless fuel lines - 200
misc stainless fasteners in bulk - 200
new chassis bushings - 100

Thats only 2600 right there, which of course would be pretty much a minimum figure. Naturally you can pay 3700 for a DAP or RN chassis and pay ECR 10k to put it in (and wait 2 years!) - but thats only one way to crack the egg.
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  #13  
Old April 2nd, 2007, 01:19 PM
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If only I still had that frame...

Just to clarify.. 10K would be the price including the new galv. frame, installed, with new SS pipes and a good bit of other work done. Not 10K for just installing a frame you bring us (ouch).
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  #14  
Old April 2nd, 2007, 02:01 PM
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Mike,

This is not something I can afford to do now..........but down the road maybe. I live in Maryland - my wife and I go to Maine as much as we can. Mt. Desert Island and Acadia National Park is our favorite place in the world. Warren, Maine would be on the way.......

I assume you would do quite a bit to the truck for 10K. I would end up with the Galvanized frame and many other things fixed or improved.......

How long in advance does on have to schedule with you to get their truck in..........and How long would you keep the truck?

Flagg
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  #15  
Old April 2nd, 2007, 02:16 PM
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You are all a bunch of whiners. You guys need to hang out with series rover owners more often. They would patch a frame with lumber . . . .

Anyway . . .

The biggest thing for now is to pull the transmission crossmember and treat and or patch the steel there. That rust is structural. DO IT NOW!!!!! Your frame can actually buckle in this spot (saw it happen to a Range Rover Classic once).

It is not that hard to patch.

Now as far as the rear cross member.

Pull the step bumper off. See how bad it is. MAKE SURE TO CLEAN ALL THE MUD OUT OF THE INSIDE OF THE FRAME RAILS. Seal off so NO MUD GETS IN THE CROSSMEMBER OR FRAME RAILS. You can do this by welding patches in the cross member.

Now get a wire brush for your grinder and wire brush all the rust. Now spray rust converter on it. Now primer. Now paint. Let dry for a few weeks, then spray with waxyoil or similar.

The rear cross member repair and especially the transmission cross member repair should get you another 10 years no problem.

If you keep the mud out of the inside of the frame and some paint on the outside of the frame, a land rover frame will last a very long time. If you do not, it will rust away quickly.

Ron
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  #16  
Old April 2nd, 2007, 02:26 PM
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Some of those are questions for an email, not the technical chat board.

10K will get the typical frame swap plus some odds and ends done, but it doesn't cover a restoration or anything. Each truck is different.
This truck had a rusty frame, but a good bulkhead and it was about 10K for the frame and stuff (the lockers were additional)
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/150.html

Your rear crossmember just might need to be replaced and that can save a ton of cash. It really depends on the rest of the frame. If the rest of it is in great shape and you only have some rear crossmember rot, then a patch with a new rear section is a days work and can get you on the road for years.
If the rest of the frame has rust issues as well, then you should look to replaceent instead.

To keep costs down you can install a used frame, but if although that does save some $, I'd always suggest a galv. frame to add value to your rig, not just another used frame.

If you stop by the shop on your next trip to Maine we can take a look and advise you better.

I see a lot worse than that in for service that are still on the road.


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  #17  
Old April 3rd, 2007, 07:29 AM
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Mike,

When the time comes..........to E-mail you directly do I e-mail tech@eastcoastrover.com, or info@eastcoastrover.com, or something else?

Thanks,

Flagg
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  #18  
Old April 6th, 2007, 11:43 PM
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I took a brief look under my truck today. The rear cross memeber is terrible.........The rest of the chassis really does not seem to look that bad. Most areas on the chassis do not seem to have rust at all. Though I am not trying to hide the fact that I need to start addressing this, and it is probably worse then I can see...........I need to get the truck up on a lift and take a better, longer look.

So tell me - why is my rear cross member SO bad in comparison to the rest of the chassis. Is it typical that this piece of the chassis would rust so much faster then anything else? What would have caused this.......

Flagg
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  #19  
Old April 7th, 2007, 01:04 AM
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Andrew Najarian
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Yes because it is a great trap for mud and salt and any other road grime. Its just the nature of the beast that unless you consciencously clean that stuff out after off-roading or driving in snow, and occasionally in between it is going to gather all that crap and initiate rust.
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  #20  
Old May 7th, 2007, 12:35 PM
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jim pendleton
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I got what you need Flagg. And I got a reason to come to MD so I could deliver it as well. Look in classified under frame for sale.

If you want an installed price I can PM you that as well. Anybody know a shop that could put a frame under this guys truck a bit closer to him then KS.

Jim Pendleton
Thanks JimC

Follow-up Post:

Not trying to horn in your Deal Mike, sorry.

JP
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