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  #21  
Old November 16th, 2004, 11:10 AM
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Peter Miller
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Yousef, I like the idea of your poor mans 3 link. The only obstical would be if there is enough room on full compression to not hit anything.

UKlandyandy did some searching and came up with some pics of RockRover's 60 swap (which uses a home brewed SG setup) to maybe give an idea on how to do yours.
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  #22  
Old November 16th, 2004, 11:20 AM
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jim pendleton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrover
Oh no Pendy? As you can see it the picture an arm like I showed can be used in conjunction with another link and a track rod to control axle wrap and any sort of axle steer. But again like I said, you would have to figure out the exact angles to use, but it is a very basic proven 3 link configuration. So did I miss something? Please school me then, as oppossed to just saying I'm wrong...

Your wrong. If you want to pay tuition you can come to camp.

I see no third link in your pictures. If you were talking about a different type suspension I did not pay attention. I just noticed the threads lead person talking about his castor arms and the three link. If you have another idea you are presenting then get on with it. No need to puff your chest out for me.

As far as measureing his connection points and building the three link from his current positions, that seems good in theory. But most every custom suspension design has adjustable links. And I think he is limiting his work not to add the adjustment.

Twisted are you worried about the oil pan on you low budget approach?

JP
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  #23  
Old November 16th, 2004, 12:03 PM
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Yousef Hamzeh
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Ok this was an idea three years ago but might give it a try after I talk to Keith. Now I just went to the garage and looked at both 90's, SG 3-link and one with radius arms. I noticed there is no way I can run the 3rd link on the top of the pumpkin since there is a drive shaft. However, offsetting the 3rd link to the left will clear but less separation the lower and upper links, no problem I'm sure there is something can be done (higher bracket maybe). Another problem I noticed is I'm running double CV DS so this could be another clearance problem where the other D90 was running stock DS and has ton's of room. Oil pan? It may clear depending on how much up travel you have and what size bump stops you are running. Maybe I can convince Keith to build one under the Disco, but it will be hard to sell the kid as a mail order unit since it won't be a bolt on like the SG unit.

And what’s with the “poor man” and “low budget”? Are you guys saying I am a cheap person?
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  #24  
Old November 16th, 2004, 01:08 PM
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Johnathan Tisdale
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Mudrover-

I think the hinged debate may be in the archives of the d90 yahoo list. Quinn Dusenberry was a bronco/D90 guy who made several arms for others. A number of people claimed to get travel similar to that of a 3 link, it didn't appear that way to me in the photos. Not to mention most were not running the front shocks outside of the springs; what I can confirm firsthand is that even with a 3 link and not relocating the front shocks, travel is still relatively limited.

If you want a four link take a look at Greg Jevne's buggy. It is built on a defender platform, although I don't remember if he tubed the whole chassis or just the rear portion. He runs a four link using 4 of his heim jointed rear trailing arms and it seems to work well. When we were at the Chili Challenge two years ago it was hard to pinpoint a difference in performance of Dougs 3 link setup vs Gregs 4 link.

Yousef-

Ed Magoffin's(now Hanz') D90 had an early SG 3 link which Matt reworked and ended up welding the center link to the top side of the diff. Dont know if it is still like that or not. David B seems to have a system using the stock links that works pretty well...from pictures anyway.

Tis
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  #25  
Old November 16th, 2004, 05:24 PM
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Peter Miller
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Pendy,
My mistake I thought you refered to my arms as caster corrected arms when you where talking to UKLandy. I will make sure to have some caffeine before I post next time. And yes he should use heims/JJs with atleast one threaded end to adjust his link length. How much does tuition cost so I can learn to play with the big boys?

Tis,
I know of Quinn from the EB world which was years ago. Is Greg's buggy the one I posted above (RockRover)? I found some pics of wristed D90s and I'm with you, not impressed. This is surprising because the Fords benefit from the wristed arm alot. Like you mentioned the shock mounting is probably the limiting factor.

Now does anyone want to guinnie pig a wristed axle housing??? http://www.bcbroncos.com/frontsusp1.html
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  #26  
Old November 16th, 2004, 06:24 PM
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Johnathan Tisdale
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No, Doug is Rockrover. Greg owns Safarigard, he has a builup photo album on his site www.safarigard.com





Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrover
Pendy,
My mistake I thought you refered to my arms as caster corrected arms when you where talking to UKLandy. I will make sure to have some caffeine before I post next time. And yes he should use heims/JJs with atleast one threaded end to adjust his link length. How much does tuition cost so I can learn to play with the big boys?

Tis,
I know of Quinn from the EB world which was years ago. Is Greg's buggy the one I posted above (RockRover)? I found some pics of wristed D90s and I'm with you, not impressed. This is surprising because the Fords benefit from the wristed arm alot. Like you mentioned the shock mounting is probably the limiting factor.

Now does anyone want to guinnie pig a wristed axle housing??? http://www.bcbroncos.com/frontsusp1.html
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  #27  
Old November 16th, 2004, 07:31 PM
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Andy
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Hi guys,

Thanks for all the help, I've now got my basic system sorted with regards to components etc. I've spoken to the guys at QT Services and they'll make me some bespoke versions of there ultra light arms with a single bush on the front end for the axle (http://www.qtservices.co.uk/newprod.htm). Christian pointed me in the direction of agri suppliers for an adjustable tractor link for the 3rd link, this will give me the adjustability for castor correction. Just need to find one with the correct hole centres etc.

So, will get the rest of the metalwork drawn up now ready for fabrication over the next few weeks.

Cheers,

PS, pic of photo composite of QT arm and tractor link ( at the bottom and it'll need jam nuts... I know)
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  #28  
Old November 16th, 2004, 09:29 PM
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Why don't you guys do this. Simple, better than a 3link and rides wonderfully on and off road. And no, you don't need a sway bar. When I took these pictures there was still 3.5in of uptravel on the compressed side that was not used because I need to adjust the spring stop on the coilover.
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  #29  
Old November 16th, 2004, 10:09 PM
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Peter Miller
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Uklandy, I can't say that I recommend using a tractor heim joint. Most are not capable of sustaining the radial loads needed in an offroad suspension, and also they tend to wear out and become sloppy. Do it once and do it right with atleast some quality heim/JJ on one end and either a bushing/heim/JJ on the other. You can buy weld in inserts for them and weld them onto the apropriate walled tube.

Buck very interesting, is the frame mount side stock?
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  #30  
Old November 16th, 2004, 10:25 PM
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Man, that 37in looks tiny there, I just noticed. Yes, one arm is completely stock and both the frame mounts are bone stock. It lacks bling but it takes 2 hours fab time to do the whole thing. I have attached a pic of all the room left in the coilover so there is still a lot of travel, I just haven't had time to snap another picture after adjusting the coilover.
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  #31  
Old November 17th, 2004, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKlandyandy
There isn't any one here with a truck that's already got a system installed, so I need to be quite confident that whatever I build will perform first time.
On the contrary. There are a number of 3-links in use in the UK. A guy on the UK Winch Challenge scene called Bryn Hemming was making his own up a couple of years ago. I'm sure you'd be able to track him down through one of the UK forums. I know of a few SG systems in use too.

Specialist Leisure are now importing SG stuff into the UK. They're quoting 700 for the 3-link which doesn't seem too bad when you compare it with the 1000 they want for the SG front bumper-steering guard extra!

Kev B
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  #32  
Old November 17th, 2004, 10:38 AM
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Buck,

Quote:
It lacks bling but it takes 2 hours fab time to do the whole thing.
Nice setup, but I think you're forgetting to add in the cost of coilovers and the time and money it takes to fab the mounts for them also.

Matt
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  #33  
Old November 17th, 2004, 09:46 PM
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I ain't forgetting nothing. Who says you need coilovers. You can run it with poor-folk springs too.
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  #34  
Old November 17th, 2004, 10:45 PM
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You know I was looking at that today, the spring pad is right in the way of the where you would place the arm. Is there a reson the arm has to be on top of the axle other then clearance? And I don't know that the local welder can fab up that other fancy arm you have there, I can't see that modifing the mount would take very much time.
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  #35  
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:03 AM
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The arm is mounted on top of the axle for no other reason than it helps with the clearance. You can run it below. The mount is very simple but the arm is simple too. Any decent fab guy could do it. It is cast so there is a small amount that goes into welding, but not much. Simple and cheap, now I have to get back to solving my intercooler crisis!
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  #36  
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:16 AM
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Sweeet! Thanks man!
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  #37  
Old November 20th, 2004, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKlandyandy
Hi Peter & all,

The reason I'm working on a design that's similar to the SG system is that I know it will basically work. There isn't any one here with a truck that's already got a system installed, so I need to be quite confident that whatever I build will perform first time. The additional articulation I'm looking for is to match the rear setup I already have and I don't do any rock crawling here either.... cause there ain't no trails to go on. Most of my time off road will be in mud up to the bottom of the doors and over heavily rutted ground or through peat bogs in Wales.
Just noticed this thread. There are 3 link systems in this country
Home grown ones
Based on SG. You need to get along to some of the winch challenge events or have a look at some back ssues of LRM.
A hybrid LR known as The Black Pig Built by Paul Whiteman runs a 3 link system and has around 40" of wheel travel between diagonally opposite wheels. It's rather good off road. keeping all the wheels on the ground helps even if there isn't much in the way of rocks. Check out the LRE forum and Horsham and district 4x4 club web site

Nice disco bumper Kev, saw the LRM feature on it. D'OH thread hijacking
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  #38  
Old November 20th, 2004, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover
There are 3 link systems in this country Home grown ones Based on SG.
I'm working on a total budget of 500ish, and that includes some new shock's too.

Anyway, heres a pic of my progress to date, showing the all the front axle components mocked up in cardboard on the axle casing. There all drawn up on AutoCAD and I'm waiting for a quote from the local laser cutters. Just the cross member to finish off now.

Cheers,
Andy
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  #39  
Old November 20th, 2004, 02:02 PM
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Andy, that looks good. IT appears that you are a master with the cardboard. I bet that setup will have some great results
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  #40  
Old November 20th, 2004, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDI Guy
Andy, that looks good. IT appears that you are a master with the cardboard. I bet that setup will have some great results
Thanx, cardboard... AutoCAD & spray mount adhesive.... the engineers best friends...
Wish it was as easy to cut 8mm thick steel plate...... with scissors.... LOL
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