High Torquers... - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old February 27th, 2006, 07:28 PM
cbass's Avatar
cbass
Status: Offline
Bradlee Duncan
'94 White and '95 Red D's
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, Utah, USA
Posts: 540
High Torquers...

Hey all,
From what I have gathered, the R380 transmission can handle 380Nm (280.3 lb ft) of torque. I was wondering three things basically:

1) What exactly is limiting that? Is it the clutch, internals, what?

2) Those of you that have engines putting out more torque than that (Doug?), did you do anything different with the trans/clutch or did you just risk it?

3) If I were to upgrade the clutch (242mm up to 250mm) would that be enough to handle about 300 lb ft without having to worry about the rest of the transmission?
__________________
Mom: "Boy, you got champagne taste on a beer budget."
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old February 28th, 2006, 12:34 PM
Doug's Avatar
Doug
Status: Offline
Doug Walker
TVR5L-powered NAS D-110
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 880
Since my 5.0 only breaths through the airflow setup for the 3.9, it doesn't generate max torque or hp. It also has the 3.9 exhaust manifolds, which limits power. I'm purposely avoiding improving air flow just to keep from blowing up the drive train, and I'm totally happy with current torque and hp. I'd guess, as it is, the engine is pushing close to the above limit of 280, maybe a bit less. So far the stock drive train has been up to the task. I'm planning an upgrade to a 380 from the stock original 77 someday. Clutch has about 40K on it.

DW
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 28th, 2006, 01:42 PM
cbass's Avatar
cbass
Status: Offline
Bradlee Duncan
'94 White and '95 Red D's
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, Utah, USA
Posts: 540
Does anybody know what the LT 77 can handle torque-wise?

What about other manual land Rover transmissions? Are there any with higher torque ratings?
__________________
Mom: "Boy, you got champagne taste on a beer budget."
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old February 28th, 2006, 02:43 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass
Hey all,
From what I have gathered, the R380 transmission can handle 380Nm (280.3 lb ft) of torque. I was wondering three things basically:

1) What exactly is limiting that? Is it the clutch, internals, what?

2) Those of you that have engines putting out more torque than that (Doug?), did you do anything different with the trans/clutch or did you just risk it?

3) If I were to upgrade the clutch (242mm up to 250mm) would that be enough to handle about 300 lb ft without having to worry about the rest of the transmission?
Where did you find the 280 limit number? I have no motive, just curious.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 28th, 2006, 04:06 PM
cbass's Avatar
cbass
Status: Offline
Bradlee Duncan
'94 White and '95 Red D's
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, Utah, USA
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Where did you find the 280 limit number? I have no motive, just curious.
It was quoted to me by M&D Engineering. I have no idea where they got it from.

David, you have the 2.8HS International in your truck don't you? Or am I mistaken? If you have tweaked that engine at all, you might be right at the 280 number.
__________________
Mom: "Boy, you got champagne taste on a beer budget."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 28th, 2006, 04:47 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass
It was quoted to me by M&D Engineering. I have no idea where they got it from.

David, you have the 2.8HS International in your truck don't you? Or am I mistaken? If you have tweaked that engine at all, you might be right at the 280 number.
I have the 300 TDI but tweaked to the max. I wouldn't be surprised if I am very close to the 280 number. Makes me a little nervous.

edit: Nevermind, I am probably under that.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 28th, 2006, 10:43 PM
cbass's Avatar
cbass
Status: Offline
Bradlee Duncan
'94 White and '95 Red D's
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, Utah, USA
Posts: 540
I could google it, but how much does the 300tdi put out stock? What have you done to it out of curiosity? Also, did you do anything to the transmission at all, even if it was just a bigger clutch?
__________________
Mom: "Boy, you got champagne taste on a beer budget."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 28th, 2006, 11:07 PM
RyanS's Avatar
RyanS
Status: Offline
Ryan
'93 NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 426
Not to step on Buck's answer but this is a good link for stock HP and torque ratings of the 300 Tdi, TD5, and HS2.8: http://www.forward-specialties.co.nz/engine.htm

BTW, it seems that some manual trans have their torque rating within their model name. Like the NV4500 is rated to 450 ft-lb, and the NV5600 is rated to 560 ft-lb. Although the NV3550 is rated to 300 ft-lb so who knows what happened there. Anyway, it seems logical that the R380 designates the torque rating in metric units, i.e. 380 N-m = 280 ft-lb. I also found somewhere that the ZF4HP22 is rated to 280 ft-lb.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 1st, 2006, 01:06 AM
whistler110's Avatar
whistler110
Status: Offline
Mike Johnstone
ex-mod 110
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pemberton, B.C., Canada
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada
Anyway, it seems logical that the R380 designates the torque rating in metric units, i.e. 380 N-m = 280 ft-lb. I also found somewhere that the ZF4HP22 is rated to 280 ft-lb.
That is it exactly.

I have read that the LT77 has a similier torgue rating, but I don't know if I believe it. It obviously doesn't have the same long term durability.
__________________
Bike Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 1st, 2006, 01:12 AM
Doug's Avatar
Doug
Status: Offline
Doug Walker
TVR5L-powered NAS D-110
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 880
120K on my LT77. I've heard of them going 250K. You have to drive 'em like a truck otherwise they'll undoubtably come apart on you, after the syncro and gears are worn to the bone.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old March 1st, 2006, 02:15 AM
RyanS's Avatar
RyanS
Status: Offline
Ryan
'93 NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 426
One thing I've learned is you can't necessarily judge things by small sample sizes. A few people may have a great experience with the same thing a few other people don't. My LT77 had 80K miles on and was working fine when I replaced it with an NV4500. The NV for most people is a bulletproof tranny. I've had several problems with it (even had the whole thing replaced under warranty once). My next try is a ZF4HP22 with HP24 internals.

BTW, getting back to the original post, are you considering a diesel which is why you're concerned about the higher torque? The reason I ask is because I believe that diesels are much harder on clutches/trans than gassers. That's why many diesels with manuals use things like dual mass flywheels (to help isolate the torque spikes). I just had the clutch disc come apart on my 6.5 diesel. That's one of the reasons why I've decided to the go the ZF route (mated to a 2.8) as the torque converter acts as a damper. If you're going with a higher output gasser, ignore everything I've said
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old March 1st, 2006, 06:52 PM
cbass's Avatar
cbass
Status: Offline
Bradlee Duncan
'94 White and '95 Red D's
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, Utah, USA
Posts: 540
Thanks for the comments guys, and Ryan, you are right in that I am referring to diesels mostly. At least that's the application that I will be doing. Could you give me some more information on the NV4500 transmission? I'll do some searches myself too. Thanks!
__________________
Mom: "Boy, you got champagne taste on a beer budget."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old March 1st, 2006, 10:19 PM
RyanS's Avatar
RyanS
Status: Offline
Ryan
'93 NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 426
Bradlee - The NV4500 is a 5-speed, granny low, OD transmission made by New Venture Gear. It's been used behind the 6.2/6.5 GM diesels as well as the Cummins 5.9, and I'm sure a lot of other applications I'm not aware of. It's also a popular trans for SBC and other conversions. Personally I would not recommend it for a small diesel. In fact, one of the problems I have with the available manual transmissions and diesels is the limited number of gears (generally 5 or less) which means the gear spacing is too great. Diesels, unlike gassers, like to operate in a relatively narrow rpm band. So the more gears, the better. In my truck, the granny low is useless on the road so I start in 2nd gear. This means I basically have a 4 speed. And the gear spacing isn't quite right so you find that one gear may feel too high and next lower is too low. This problem will be accentuated by a diesel with a lower torque output. I have a preference for manuals and would love to run one, but I just don't see a good match that's available. I've even considered using an OD as a gear splitter. But all of the OD's that plug into the LT230 have too high of an OD ratio, and would not be effective as splitters. So I'll be going the ZF auto route - I would still prefer a 5 or 6-speed, but I don't want any electronic controls and also prefer a direct connection to the LT230 (no adapters). So I'm accepting some trade-offs as I haven't found the ideal solution, yet.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old March 2nd, 2006, 06:10 PM
whistler110's Avatar
whistler110
Status: Offline
Mike Johnstone
ex-mod 110
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pemberton, B.C., Canada
Posts: 184
Ryan: Out of curiousity what LT230 ratio were you running with the NV4500 and what 1st gear ratio did you have?
__________________
Bike Mike
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old March 2nd, 2006, 07:26 PM
RyanS's Avatar
RyanS
Status: Offline
Ryan
'93 NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 426
Mike - My NV4500 has the 5.610 first gear. I started with a 1.00 transfer case, and then went to a 1.22. I recently bought a 1.41 to try, but decided to hold off until I get the 2.8 installed. I'm also running the stock 3.54 gears and 35's.

BTW, I was hoping to do a Whistler trip last year, but was buying a house and just never had the time. I'm hoping to get up there maybe later this year or next for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old March 3rd, 2006, 11:32 PM
whistler110's Avatar
whistler110
Status: Offline
Mike Johnstone
ex-mod 110
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pemberton, B.C., Canada
Posts: 184
Thanks for the numbers.

The bike park is growing like crazy and the riding has been awesome. Hope to see you up here soon.
__________________
Bike Mike
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old June 13th, 2006, 05:01 PM
ripp2002's Avatar
ripp2002
Status: Offline
L C
94 Defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: IL
Posts: 110
R380 what clutch?

Just curious how many have the R380 and run with a stock clutch? Would you recommend it or something beafier if so which one. My clutch seems to be taking a shit so I am going to buy a new one just want to make sure I get the correct one.

Thanks alot,
Larry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thule #420 high rise gutter mounts lactic For Sale - Parts 4 February 28th, 2006 11:25 AM
High altitude operation with a 3.8 EFI = CRAP? solihul Defender Technical Discussions 2 January 2nd, 2006 06:15 AM
Opinion on a high milage D90 Wagon jsilverman Defender Technical Discussions 4 November 10th, 2005 10:12 AM
Periodic High Pitch noise Joe P Defender Technical Discussions 3 July 18th, 2004 06:55 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09 AM.


Copyright