help with 110 suspension setup for expediton / trails - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 14th, 2014, 06:05 PM
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help with 110 suspension setup for expediton / trails

So upfront I know there is no perfect solution to what I'm looking to accomplish and also understand the tradeoff of wanting the best of both worlds. The truck has an OME 2" lift now (766 front and 755) rear which is great for expedition stuff but lacking in challenging trails, flex department as the thing drags like a bus...

Looking to take my 110 and use it for extended expedition type trips with RTT, gear and weight in/on it while maintaining road manors. I use that term lightly as It no sway bars now and I'm used to rolling around corners and by all means its not a hot rod but cruising 65 on the highway without being white knuckled is ideal. On the other side I want to take off the rack and tent and most gear and go hit the good trails that challenge the truck and get some decent flex out of it.

I've been eying a few setups including gywn lewis challenge suspension kit
http://www.gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/
which seems decent and adds some flex but also lacks a advanced type shock (remote reservoir etc) which might allow my to adjust from street to trails to stiffen/soften. But Ive never been a huge fan of the drop out coils due to lack of downward force when flexing.

to solve that though I was thinking of running the x spring which would allow me to keep my current springs or if anything add a heavier rear spring for the weight but still get the flex using the x spring and some gywn lewis parts. http://foundry4x4.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=65_1759&product_id=72 I have no idea if you can run the xspring in the front though?

I love Cor4s suspension systems as hes address a lot of these issues but you need a second mortgage to afford one. That said he does offer the only front shocks mounts I could find that would take a remote reservoir or bypass shock.

so cranked trailing arms, shock mounts, longer more advanced shocks, maybe x spring in current coils and some brake lines in the back but not sure what to do about the front or just mimic the backs setup if you can do x springs and longer shocks. I guess with what I outlined I see it as the current coils will provide the same ride as I have now but with the longer shocks and xsprings I would get more trail flex but would a adjustable shock really help compensate for the added weight when in expo mode and be able to soften enough when on the trails? Am I asking a shock to do a coils job? Do they even make shocks that can be adjusted that easily (10 clicks this way kind of thing?)

constructive help appreciated

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  #2  
Old April 14th, 2014, 06:10 PM
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I dont know if this answers your question but i would think x deflect rear sway bar and quad shock the rear is the way to go. I have a standard rear sway but quad shocks and no issues. Shayne (aka the rover shop) runs the set up i described above. Ask him what he thinks. I have a 110
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:14 PM
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Thanks for the input and I'll reach out to him. I do know gywn Lewis said I can't rub"n sway bars with his kit so I assumed the x deflect wouldn't work but maybe I'm wrong. Also leads me to the thought of running x engineering trailing arms instead of the standard cranked ones but I was concerned with adding even more complexity.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:19 PM
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my 110 is overland configured. I have RTE 3" progressive springs with cranked radius arms and front double cardon. It's a daily driver and I have zero issues on trails due to suspension. I run 75 on the highways like butter. Never taken my sway's off and don't see a need to.

------ Follow up post added April 14th, 2014 07:22 PM ------

Forgot to mention I added extended braided brake lines. RTE matched me with correct longer OME shocks, so my shock mounts all around are stock.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:55 PM
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A few thoughts as I have run a few setups on my 110...

When I finally got my suspension dialed in perfectly I was running the following:
X-Eng trailing arms, X-Joint, and X-Deflex, plus custom raised shock mounts in the rear, and TF cranked radius arms and shock towers in front. I used Fox Remote Res shocks, and for springs I used HD TF +2 springs and TF 2" spring spacers. Overall this gave me about 4-4.5" of lift.

I was very pleased with how this setup worked on the trail with a heavily loaded truck, and how the setup worked on the highway at 70mph.

I am building a new 110 and am using another compilation of parts, mostly Qt:
Qt rose jointed trailing arms, Qt rose jointed A frame joint, Qt rear shock relocation bracket (moves the shocks inboard of the frame), Qt front cranked radius arms, Qt shock relocation brackets (moves the shock outside the spring).

For springs I am testing two setups:
1. TF HD +2" springs only (To achieve a 2-2.5" lift)
2. TF HD +2" springs in the rear with COR4 spring wedges and L8 5" springs in front (to achieve 4.5-5" lift)

I am undecided on shocks still.

My dilemma is that I am trying to build a family friendly truck that I can also thrash on the trail and take on long excursions.

While the COR4 stuff is awesome, good luck getting any of it. I called Lucky8 and had Justin piece me together a kit that would achieve the same results as their extreme kit, for about half the cost.

Here are a few pics of the Qt stuff.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
my 110 is overland configured. I have RTE 3" progressive springs with cranked radius arms and front double cardon. It's a daily driver and I have zero issues on trails due to suspension. I run 75 on the highways like butter. Never taken my sway's off and don't see a need to.

------ Follow up post added April 14th, 2014 07:22 PM ------

Forgot to mention I added extended braided brake lines. RTE matched me with correct longer OME shocks, so my shock mounts all around are stock.

thanks for the input and did you do cranked trailing arms as well? Ive read mixed opinions on when cranked radius arms are needed..from 2" up to 3" up so not sure if I need to or if it will help if i stick with 2" springs. Any pics of your ride height and action shots?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
A few thoughts as I have run a few setups on my 110...

When I finally got my suspension dialed in perfectly I was running the following:
X-Eng trailing arms, X-Joint, and X-Deflex, plus custom raised shock mounts in the rear, and TF cranked radius arms and shock towers in front. I used Fox Remote Res shocks, and for springs I used HD TF +2 springs and TF 2" spring spacers. Overall this gave me about 4-4.5" of lift.

I was very pleased with how this setup worked on the trail with a heavily loaded truck, and how the setup worked on the highway at 70mph.

I am building a new 110 and am using another compilation of parts, mostly Qt:
Qt rose jointed trailing arms, Qt rose jointed A frame joint, Qt rear shock relocation bracket (moves the shocks inboard of the frame), Qt front cranked radius arms, Qt shock relocation brackets (moves the shock outside the spring).

For springs I am testing two setups:
1. TF HD +2" springs only (To achieve a 2-2.5" lift)
2. TF HD +2" springs in the rear with COR4 spring wedges and L8 5" springs in front (to achieve 4.5-5" lift)

I am undecided on shocks still.

My dilemma is that I am trying to build a family friendly truck that I can also thrash on the trail and take on long excursions.

While the COR4 stuff is awesome, good luck getting any of it. I called Lucky8 and had Justin piece me together a kit that would achieve the same results as their extreme kit, for about half the cost.

Here are a few pics of the Qt stuff.

Wolf great info but a few follow ups
-pics of old setup?
-if the setup you had previous was dialed why the change to qt?
-What is the x joint? don't see it on the site? I know what x arm and x deflect but...
-i think you confirmed but no issue with x arms and x deflect at full flex?
-I'd like to run smaller springs to keep the height down as i only run 255's so with that in mind a smaller spring complemented with the x spring seems to come to mind to help balance a lower truck but still great flex..thoughts?

If you don't know QT changed to wildbear and is sold through bearmach now with some huge delays in some stuff which does not help my case much. You and I have the same dilemma for family rig that can take a beating and cruise down the highway....


Also am i way off thinking you can tweak a shock on the go for expo setting vs wheeling setting? or is that was the x deflect would do? I keep coming back to mnt bikes when i used to ride and you could click a few settings to stiffen it up for on road and then back down for trail
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  #8  
Old April 14th, 2014, 08:43 PM
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cranked trailing arms are my remaining needed item. OEM doesn't present any kind of articulation issue so far but you can tell it's really hard on the bushings.

My buddy behind me took some pics on the trail, but I don't have them yet. Here's the parked shot I have where you can see the clearance.

my tires are 255/85

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Old April 14th, 2014, 09:13 PM
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Maybe you should get some lockers. I doubt that more flex is going to solve your issues on the trails.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 09:15 PM
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I am not setup for extreme articulation. if that's what you are after, then you should go with wolf's approach. mine is a family overlander, not a rock crawler.
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  #11  
Old April 14th, 2014, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Maybe you should get some lockers. I doubt that more flex is going to solve your issues on the trails.
I am already locked F+R and not trying to solve an issue but rather enhance my ability. The truck just stuffs very fast and from there drags limiting me.
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  #12  
Old April 14th, 2014, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myoverlandrover View Post
Wolf great info but a few follow ups
-pics of old setup?
-if the setup you had previous was dialed why the change to qt?
-What is the x joint? don't see it on the site? I know what x arm and x deflect but...
-i think you confirmed but no issue with x arms and x deflect at full flex?
-I'd like to run smaller springs to keep the height down as i only run 255's so with that in mind a smaller spring complemented with the x spring seems to come to mind to help balance a lower truck but still great flex..thoughts?

If you don't know QT changed to wildbear and is sold through bearmach now with some huge delays in some stuff which does not help my case much. You and I have the same dilemma for family rig that can take a beating and cruise down the highway....


Also am i way off thinking you can tweak a shock on the go for expo setting vs wheeling setting? or is that was the x deflect would do? I keep coming back to mnt bikes when i used to ride and you could click a few settings to stiffen it up for on road and then back down for trail
Here are a few pics.

I still want more flex, but there is not much more you can gain without going to a 3 or 4 link in front. There is a still a bit more that can be gained in the rear. And since I am building a new truck I am trying some new ideas.

Sorry, it's the "X-Ball": http://foundry4x4.co.uk/index.php?ro...product_id=207

Yes, my Qt stuff took a few months to get, but I am in no rush.

As for shocks, Overland Journal actually picked the Rancho RS9000XL as the best shock for overlanding. It does have the ability to adjust the ride.

Keep in mind that the X-Deflex is an unlockable rear sway bar. It can actually limit your articulation in the rear, but it won't do anything to improve it. I am installing one because I need to keep the truck safe on the road for the family.

I am likely running 285/55s or 255/85s as well, fully locked with Ashcroft lockers front and rear.
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  #13  
Old April 15th, 2014, 02:12 PM
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Wolf - 2 questions when you get a chance

- why the change to 255 or 285's from 35's?
- where did you source that HD aluminum fuel tank cradle/plate/guard?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by don View Post
Wolf - 2 questions when you get a chance

- why the change to 255 or 285's from 35's?
- where did you source that HD aluminum fuel tank cradle/plate/guard?
I was going 315/85, so slightly smaller than 35", but I am trying to make the truck a bit more overlanding and highway friendly.

I am building the suspension, however, to be easily upgradeable to the larger tire if I change my mind. All it will require are spring wedges in the rear and those 5" L8 springs in the front. I'll already have the extended brake lines, cranked front arms, DC front driveshaft, front shocks outside the springs, etc.

The aluminum fuel skid is from the now defunct Equipe. COR4 might have something similiar, but good luck getting it.
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  #15  
Old April 15th, 2014, 04:43 PM
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I had a set of 285/55R20s on my last F150 but it came with factory 20 inch rims. They were ok for on the road, not much in the way of choice for M/Ts if I recall.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
I was going 315/85, so slightly smaller than 35", but I am trying to make the truck a bit more overlanding and highway friendly. I am building the suspension, however, to be easily upgradeable to the larger tire if I change my mind. All it will require are spring wedges in the rear and those 5" L8 springs in the front. I'll already have the extended brake lines, cranked front arms, DC front driveshaft, front shocks outside the springs, etc. The aluminum fuel skid is from the now defunct Equipe. COR4 might have something similiar, but good luck getting it.
Thanks Wolf - I am debating using 35s or 255's on the 110. I have them both so will see how the OM617 will do turning them. Both have their pluses and minuses.

I did a search on fuel skids and I think Lucky 8 sells a TF version for around $300. COR4 might be double that, haha

Thanks for the info on your suspension setup too - I always like hearing what people are doing.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 06:34 PM
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If your interested, I have the Qt items circled in Wolf's post #5 going spare.... took them off my truck when I 4 linked & did the 100" w/b on the rear end.

Drop us a PM & we can work something out....
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Old April 15th, 2014, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
A few thoughts as I have run a few setups on my 110... When I finally got my suspension dialed in perfectly I was running the following: X-Eng trailing arms, X-Joint, and X-Deflex, plus custom raised shock mounts in the rear, and TF cranked radius arms and shock towers in front. I used Fox Remote Res shocks, and for springs I used HD TF +2 springs and TF 2" spring spacers. Overall this gave me about 4-4.5" of lift. I was very pleased with how this setup worked on the trail with a heavily loaded truck, and how the setup worked on the highway at 70mph. I am building a new 110 and am using another compilation of parts, mostly Qt: Qt rose jointed trailing arms, Qt rose jointed A frame joint, Qt rear shock relocation bracket (moves the shocks inboard of the frame), Qt front cranked radius arms, Qt shock relocation brackets (moves the shock outside the spring). For springs I am testing two setups: 1. TF HD +2" springs only (To achieve a 2-2.5" lift) 2. TF HD +2" springs in the rear with COR4 spring wedges and L8 5" springs in front (to achieve 4.5-5" lift) I am undecided on shocks still. My dilemma is that I am trying to build a family friendly truck that I can also thrash on the trail and take on long excursions. While the COR4 stuff is awesome, good luck getting any of it. I called Lucky8 and had Justin piece me together a kit that would achieve the same results as their extreme kit, for about half the cost. Here are a few pics of the Qt stuff.
Any idea what your fully compressed and full travel measurements are on those rear shocks with that rear shock locator bracket?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 09:30 PM
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I reached out to Fox shocks and they came back recommending the Factory series which can easily be valved for heavier setups and has a CD adjuster which gives you 8 clicks of adjustment from soft to hard.

http://www.ridefox.com/product.php?m...=25&ref=filter


From some other digging I guess the X springs can be loud even on paved roads as they bang around which is not so attractive to me. Not sure if thats a better tradeoff than drop out coils or whatever you call them.

Landy_andy pm sent
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Old April 16th, 2014, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myoverlandrover View Post
I reached out to Fox shocks and they came back recommending the Factory series which can easily be valved for heavier setups and has a CD adjuster which gives you 8 clicks of adjustment from soft to hard. http://www.ridefox.com/product.php?m...=25&ref=filter From some other digging I guess the X springs can be loud even on paved roads as they bang around which is not so attractive to me. Not sure if thats a better tradeoff than drop out coils or whatever you call them. Landy_andy pm sent
For some reason I was talked out of those shocks by Justin @ Lucky8 and I can't recall the reason.

------ Follow up post added April 16th, 2014 06:53 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadeus View Post
Any idea what your fully compressed and full travel measurements are on those rear shocks with that rear shock locator bracket?
No clue. I'm am 5000 miles from my truck and someone else is building it.
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