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  #1  
Old September 5th, 2013, 07:59 PM
leonus1
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Help! Smoking 300TDI

I have a 1997 Defender 90 300TDI that puts out heavy black smoke in fifth gear when cruising and white smoke when I coast downhill in any gear. I just had the injectors cleaned and a new filter installed. Before the injectors were cleaned it didn't have the black smoke in fifth when cruising or have the white when coasting downhill. The turbo seems to be spooling up ok, but not sure? any help will be greatly appreciated.
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  #2  
Old September 5th, 2013, 08:42 PM
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mark kellgren
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that means it's getting too much fuel at full boost. First thing I would do is crack open the IP boost diaphragm turn it to left 90 degrees. If that doesn't fix it, have a look at the fueling screw. It sounds to me like a previous owner tuned your IP, and I'll bet the safety sleeve has been removed from that screw. Turn it counterclockwise 1/4 turn to bring the fueling curve down a bit. I would start a journal of every change you do to your IP. that's what I do, so I always know what I've done in relation to OEM settings.

Also, can you see the nut on the top of your boost diaphragm, or is it covered by a cap? Trying to confirm if it is still at factory set or not, before doing anything.

Of course, everyone will probably chime in and tell you to check your timing. Not sure if you know how to do that or not.
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  #3  
Old September 5th, 2013, 09:28 PM
leonus1
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Overlander,

This is my first Diesel so I'm not completely familiar with the engine. What is the IP? (injector pump). Should I check for the boost diaphragm first? Where is it? What do I do when I find it? How should it look?

Thanks for helping me, I would be completely lost.
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  #4  
Old September 5th, 2013, 09:50 PM
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Was anything else touched when the injectors were cleaned? Was it done by someone trustworthy? You can't really clean these type of injectors.
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  #5  
Old September 5th, 2013, 09:51 PM
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mark kellgren
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Start here so you understand the IP functions and adjustments.
http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-file...ines_Rev_2.pdf
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  #6  
Old September 5th, 2013, 10:31 PM
leonus1
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I watched the mechanic clean the injectors and he had a special hand pump that he connected the injectors to so I could see the spray pattern was actually a mist. I got instant power but more smoke.

------ Follow up post added September 5th, 2013 09:32 PM ------

Thanks Overlander!
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  #7  
Old September 5th, 2013, 10:55 PM
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Check your timing. White smoke on overrun is either retarded timing or a bad spray pattern.
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  #8  
Old September 5th, 2013, 11:22 PM
leonus1
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Thanks Red90
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  #9  
Old September 5th, 2013, 11:28 PM
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Sometimes you leave well enough alone...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leonus1 View Post
I watched the mechanic clean the injectors and he had a special hand pump that he connected the injectors to so I could see the spray pattern was actually a mist. I got instant power but more smoke.

------ Follow up post added September 5th, 2013 09:32 PM ------

Thanks Overlander!
Don't adjust anything and start making things worse.
The thing that tested the spray pattern was commonly called a pop-tester.
It is sort of a high pressure pump that has a gauge that provides fuel pressure so one is able to see at what pressure the mechanical injector pops open under pressure and reveals the spray pattern.
If all was well before the test and cleaning, then you have a leaking injector that needs fixing or the cleaning opened the injector tips too much and you have excess fuel dumping in the cylinders.
If you go and randomly change settings then you will only make matters worse.
I would buy a new set of injectors and copper seats, install them and everything should go back to the way it was before you had them cleaned.
With a diesel, your most important lesson is to leave well enough alone unless there is a good reason not to.
At this point who knows, but perhaps if you had not let some monkeys monkey around with your injectors, then all would be well or at least like it was before you somehow decided it was time to clean the injectors and turn the monkeys loose on an otherwise good running fuel system!
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  #10  
Old September 5th, 2013, 11:38 PM
leonus1
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Hello rdavisinva,
Everything wasn't well before the injectors were cleaned, that's why I had them cleaned. The spray pattern before cleaning was terrible. After cleaning there was a perfect mist. I saw a significant increase in power after they were cleaned. I no longer stall on climbs. I know the problem is the fuel flow, I just wasn't sure what needed to be done.
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  #11  
Old September 6th, 2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Don't adjust anything and start making things worse.
The thing that tested the spray pattern was commonly called a pop-tester.
It is sort of a high pressure pump that has a gauge that provides fuel pressure so one is able to see at what pressure the mechanical injector pops open under pressure and reveals the spray pattern.
If all was well before the test and cleaning, then you have a leaking injector that needs fixing or the cleaning opened the injector tips too much and you have excess fuel dumping in the cylinders.
If you go and randomly change settings then you will only make matters worse.
I would buy a new set of injectors and copper seats, install them and everything should go back to the way it was before you had them cleaned.
With a diesel, your most important lesson is to leave well enough alone unless there is a good reason not to.
At this point who knows, but perhaps if you had not let some monkeys monkey around with your injectors, then all would be well or at least like it was before you somehow decided it was time to clean the injectors and turn the monkeys loose on an otherwise good running fuel system!
My assumption before giving him advice was that the PO had made adjustments to the IP to compensate for other issues, and that he is being overfueled now. I think before he doesn anything else, he need to determine if the OEM safety caps are still on the idle screw and fueling screw, to determine if the IP is at factory set or not.
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  #12  
Old September 6th, 2013, 07:32 AM
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Here's what you initially posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by leonus1 View Post
I have a 1997 Defender 90 300TDI that puts out heavy black smoke in fifth gear when cruising and white smoke when I coast downhill in any gear. I just had the injectors cleaned and a new filter installed. Before the injectors were cleaned it didn't have the black smoke in fifth when cruising or have the white when coasting downhill. The turbo seems to be spooling up ok, but not sure? any help will be greatly appreciated.
The after advice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leonus1 View Post
Hello rdavisinva,
Everything wasn't well before the injectors were cleaned, that's why I had them cleaned. The spray pattern before cleaning was terrible. After cleaning there was a perfect mist. I saw a significant increase in power after they were cleaned. I no longer stall on climbs. I know the problem is the fuel flow, I just wasn't sure what needed to be done.
You made no mention that everything WASN'T fine before the cleaning.
How can you expect help when you give a snippet of the actual facts?
We can only determine advice based on the information you provide.
And
What you provided was that you are having a problem that DIDN'T happen before the cleaning: You provided this: "Before the injectors were cleaned it didn't have the black smoke in fifth when cruising or have the white when coasting downhill."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
My assumption before giving him advice was that the PO had made adjustments to the IP to compensate for other issues, and that he is being overfueled now. I think before he doesn anything else, he need to determine if the OEM safety caps are still on the idle screw and fueling screw, to determine if the IP is at factory set or not.
We didn't get much info on how to determine what advice to give leonus1.
You're right for all we know the settings were changed as well.

When you spend lots of time fixing things that owners decide aren't broken, then unsuccessfully fix, and when sufficiently fubared, bring into me to sort out; then you incorrectly assume the worst (when someone provides limited info).

OK sorry to both of you for assuming the worst...

Good luck on your solutions... sitting out the remainder of this thread.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #13  
Old September 6th, 2013, 10:28 AM
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Sorry, off topic, but has the site team noticed that this post is in the "Support and Suggestions" forum?
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  #14  
Old September 6th, 2013, 10:52 AM
leonus1
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rdavisinva and Overlander,

My intention was not to deceive anyone by posting incomplete information about the problem. Yesterday was my first time using this forum or any forum so I'm very new to all of this. I apologize for any miss understanding, again it was not my intention to deceive or mislead anyone. I'm just looking for help to fix my 90.

Overlander,

I have attached 2 photos that confirm your assumption about the IP. The cover was removed. Before I had the injectors cleaned my Defender would stall on steep hills, now it climbs with no problem. I recently made a road trip from Medellin to Bogota and back to Medellin (I live in Colombia South America). While going up the mountains I would see black smoke coming from the exhaust, not very heavy but noticeable. While coasting down the mountains in gear I would notice white smoke coming out of the exhaust, very little but as soon as I accelerated the white smoke would increase substantially and then disappear. When I would get to level ground and cruise in fifth gear it would feel like I lost some power and heavy black smoke would come from the exhaust. As long as I kept accelerating the heavy black smoke would go away but would return when I maintained a constant speed.

Hopefully this detailed description is more helpful.
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  #15  
Old September 6th, 2013, 11:33 AM
leonus1
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How do I move this to the correct area? Sorry!

Thanks for the heads up sonoronos.
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  #16  
Old September 6th, 2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonus1 View Post
How do I move this to the correct area?
No worries Frank, someone else will do it for you/
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  #17  
Old September 6th, 2013, 12:17 PM
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mark kellgren
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now that we know that at least your smoke screw has likely been adjusted at some point, we can assume the rest may be as well. need a pick of the fuel screw as well. underneath the boost tube that runs into the top of the diaphagm. we need to figure out if the fuel screw has had the anti-tamper collar pried off yet.

After that, we need to check the fueling cone, which removing the top of the diaphragm (but not yet!). That is a 90 second job for me, as I don't have whatever that gold annodized thing is attached to the top, but looks like the 2 torque screws are all that hold it on. when we reach this point, you need a 7/16" wrench to carefully remove the boost line banjo bolt and 2 copper washers. get a permanent marker or paint pen that is going to contrast with black rubber (like the sharpie silver ink markers), so that you can mark the position of the diaphragm before you remove it.

we can discuss more after you get the fuel screw pic.
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  #18  
Old September 6th, 2013, 01:28 PM
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OK, the detail description helps.

1) Your timing is probably retarded. Fix that and the white smoke on overrunn will go and on throttle smoke will reduce.

2) The heavy smoke in 5th may be that you are going too slow for the turbo to produce boost. If the off boost fueling is up, this is what happens. Reduce fueling.
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  #19  
Old September 6th, 2013, 04:07 PM
leonus1
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Not sure if these pictures are of the correct part.
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  #20  
Old September 6th, 2013, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonus1 View Post
Not sure if these pictures are of the correct part.
2nd picture shows your fueling screw and it looks like the antitamper sleeve is still there, so you need to do your timing as discusded.
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