HELP!!! oil pump will not prime - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 9th, 2014, 08:09 PM
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HELP!!! oil pump will not prime

Here is the skinny, I bought a remanufactured 4.6 long block this summer from Atlantic British to replace my tired 3.5. I finally got around to dropping it in a few months ago and finally got to the point last month where I was able to start it up. I quickly discovered however that I did not have any oil pressure. I pulled the pump cover off and packed it with vasoline and tried again with no success. I used a drill motor on the distributor drive and could not prime it. I pumped oil into the pump until oil started oozing from the valves and tried priming it again but as soon as the oil that was in the pump is pushed through it goes dry. The oil path between the pan and the pump is clear, I have used two different pick ups and put new gaskets on both the pick up and the oil pump with no success. I tried a different pump cover and gears with no success. I am not getting a draw from the pan to the pump. Is there possibly a plug between the pan and the pump that could be missing? I am pulling my hair out trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Any ideas?
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  #2  
Old February 9th, 2014, 08:12 PM
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You have the wrong front cover gasket.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
You have the wrong front cover gasket.
I thought about that and that sure may be the issue but the tech guy from Atlantic British said that if the path through the block from the pan to the pump is clear then the gasket is not the problem. I was trying to exhaust all other possibilities before I have to take it apart.

Are there two oil paths on a 4.6 block? One gasket has two paths and the other just one. Whats blocked if I can blow air through the block to the pump?
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Old February 9th, 2014, 08:40 PM
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I don't know. The one I did I made sure I had the right gasket.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 08:40 PM
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Pull sump. Check pick up. Don't want the intake plugged or sitting on bottom of sump.
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  #6  
Old February 9th, 2014, 08:46 PM
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Ball check valve and spring. My d90 motor got fried because of this according to the original owner.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Pull sump. Check pick up. Don't want the intake plugged or sitting on bottom of sump.
It's low but off the bottom and clear.

------ Follow up post added February 10th, 2014 02:06 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Ball check valve and spring. My d90 motor got fried because of this according to the original owner.
Check valve and spring are fine, I even tried new ones.
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  #8  
Old February 9th, 2014, 09:21 PM
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Was watching old episodes of 'Engine Power' last week, they had a similar issue on an LS build. Turned out to to be the 'O' ring on the pick-up pipe being deformed when the pick-up was bolted down causing the pump not to hold prime. They slotted the pick-up mounting tab a bit & it solved the issue.... just a thought as your mix & matching parts.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 01:59 PM
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Mabye your timing cover is worn out on the surface where the oil pump gears go in
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Old February 10th, 2014, 02:36 PM
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Ron's probably right. There are 2 different front cover gaskets for the V8s. P/N ERR7280 is for the newer front covers with the crankshaft driven oil pump. P/N ERR4936 is for the older front cover with the distributor driven oil pump. The engine blocks are the same, but the covers are different shapes and if you use an ERR7280 on an older cover it won't adequately seal the intake side of the pump resulting in exactly the problem you have due to an air leak, not a blockage.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadsiderob View Post
Ron's probably right. There are 2 different front cover gaskets for the V8s. P/N ERR7280 is for the newer front covers with the crankshaft driven oil pump. P/N ERR4936 is for the older front cover with the distributor driven oil pump. The engine blocks are the same, but the covers are different shapes and if you use an ERR7280 on an older cover it won't adequately seal the intake side of the pump resulting in exactly the problem you have due to an air leak, not a blockage.
This
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Old February 10th, 2014, 03:13 PM
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This
I feel better that two very well respected professionals agree.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 03:56 PM
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He should of kept the old gasket to compare to the new gasket.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadsiderob View Post
Ron's probably right. There are 2 different front cover gaskets for the V8s. P/N ERR7280 is for the newer front covers with the crankshaft driven oil pump. P/N ERR4936 is for the older front cover with the distributor driven oil pump. The engine blocks are the same, but the covers are different shapes and if you use an ERR7280 on an older cover it won't adequately seal the intake side of the pump resulting in exactly the problem you have due to an air leak, not a blockage.

I am sure thats what I am dealing with. Almost everyone i asked said if you can blow air through the block from the pick up to the oil pump it's not a gasket issue. Since the oil path was clear I started looking at other possible factors. When you google ERR4936 you get pictures of two different gaskets, one with two oil pump paths and the other with one oil path on the pump side of the gasket. ERR4936 was the cover i was told I needed for the rebuild so it didnt occur to me there might be another type of gasket.
I guess I know what I'll be doing this week.
Thanks for the right part number on the gasket, that helps a lot.

------ Follow up post added February 11th, 2014 01:10 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Mabye your timing cover is worn out on the surface where the oil pump gears go in

If the gasket does not end up being the problem then a worn timing cover is the last thing I can think of that might be the problem.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 08:19 PM
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ERR4936 is the one i think I have on there now but not 100% sure. Both fit the same on the block. I'll know for sure soon.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 08:25 PM
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Here is another with part number ERR4936. Depending on who you buy from when you google err4936 you can end up with any variation of this gasket even though they are not the same.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 08:49 PM
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I would call RN or a dealer and buy genuine. That is what I did.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymoe View Post
ERR4936 is the one i think I have on there now but not 100% sure. Both fit the same on the block. I'll know for sure soon.
Those are file photos. Not even sure what that one on the left is. I'll take pics in the morning.
Basically they are quite the same other than one hole, and that is the key.

Even though you have a 4.6 block the majority of your gaskets should be ordered for a 3.9, otherwise you will get into trouble. 85% of it all crosses over, but as Ron said, the timing cover gasket does not and that gasket depends on the timing cover you are using, not the block.

Even a terrible timing cover will pick up prime. You may have crap oil pressure and lose prime, but even really scored ones will prime.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ECR View Post
Those are file photos. Not even sure what that one on the left is. I'll take pics in the morning.
Basically they are quite the same other than one hole, and that is the key.

Even though you have a 4.6 block the majority of your gaskets should be ordered for a 3.9, otherwise you will get into trouble. 85% of it all crosses over, but as Ron said, the timing cover gasket does not and that gasket depends on the timing cover you are using, not the block.

Even a terrible timing cover will pick up prime. You may have crap oil pressure and lose prime, but even really scored ones will prime.

Thanks,
I had no idea about the different gaskets when I was building it, I was told to just order a gasket kit for the 3.9 and everything would match up. I guess the problem with being a rookie mechanic doing my own work is not know what questions to ask. My bad.

I don't think my cover is worn and if it is I have another I could throw on.

If you can get a picture of the one i need that would be awesome. I'm using a cover off my old 3.5 and have one for a 3.9 but they are probably exactly the same.
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  #20  
Old February 11th, 2014, 01:01 AM
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There are two 3.9 gasket kits. The 94/95 disco 1 95 SWB RRC for the serp belt front cover motors (these also had composite head gaskets in most if not all) and the 94/95 d90 and earlier RRC with the v belt. I am not 100% sure of the crossover date for some of the other differences (like valve stem seals), but it is usually just a case of making sure you got the same thing or knowing what it requires to upgrade -- except for the front cover gasket.

That could have been why you got the wrong front cover gasket or it was just part supplier error ....

PS the only other gotcha I know is the spacer for the crank pulley. I assume you figured that out.
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