Help me Please No start?? - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old September 6th, 2012, 01:31 AM
Giffstone
Status: Offline
Drew Tomkinson
1997 NAS Defender 90 SW #0369
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Centerville, MA USA
Posts: 24
Registry
Help me Please No start??

Hey everyone... please help me!!!

Driving in Cape Cod Labor day traffic this Sunday my fuel pump on my 97 SW overheated and fried..... after replacement with a new and power tested functioning fuel pump, lock ring and seal, I have no start condition.... plenty of spark, no fuel at the rail schrader valve...... fuel filter replaced, power at pump after key on indicating relay is operating, new stepper motor, plenty of fuel in the tank, no fuel leaks anywhere, swapped in a rebuilt ecu and airflow sensor from a 97 disco and that didn't help..... the motor turns over, occasionally catches for a second and starves for fuel then dies..... motor rebuild and head gasket done for P/O at the insistence of dealer at 48K miles now has 54K miles, the vacuum lines are all replaced recently, new air filter and plugs/wires two weeks ago, coil packs are new within the last year........inertia switch reset, all fuses and relays related to fuel system have been swapped out with new ones, OBDII computer has no codes, no CEL..... what am I forgetting???


Thanks
Drew
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old September 6th, 2012, 01:39 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
When you first turn the key, does the Check Engine Light come on and then go off?

If not, when you swapped out the ECU, you angered the D90 and caused the issue. You can try to get the original ECU, but otherwise it needs to go to the dealer and be reset.

When you turn the key, does the fuel pump run for a few seconds and then stop? You should be able to hear it.

If so, maybe you flooded it. Try starting foot to the floor.

Other possibilities, bad crank sensor.

I am not as much of a GEMS expert as I am 14CUX so maybe someone else has an idea, but I am betting on the ECU.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old September 6th, 2012, 02:17 AM
ipgregory's Avatar
ipgregory
Status: Offline
Ian Gregory
'97 D90 ST #1008
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Henderson, NV USA
Posts: 1,083
Registry
If you have an ECU mismatch (No Alarm sync) then you will have no start. You wouldn’t get it even try to start as you indicate it’s doing. There are 2 ways to tell if it’s an immobilization issue. 1, it will not crank for about 5 seconds when you turn the key to start and 2 the Check engine light will not come on for a few seconds like it normally does when you turn the key on. The immobilization interrupts the ground to the fuel pump.

Because you say it tries to start then this may not be your issue with your original ECU. The engine ECU is by default coded to the alarm ECU in the truck (yes you have one, it’s the green box behind the instruments) and if one is switched or they lose communication with each other (bad wiring) then it will be immobilized. You can get around it either by pairing the new ECU or by disabling the alarm sync. Either will require the use of a proprietary computer like Testbook or Rovacom to access the settings. You can't just throw on another ECU on a GEMS truck and have it start (unless the new ECU has had the alarm sync disabled). Not without some re-wiring anyway.

If it’s not an immobilization issue then the lack of fuel at the rail you mention with your original ECU points me back to the fuel pump still or the fuel delivery system. You say you have power at the pump connector, do you have ground also? The ground is part of the immobilization function as I mentioned but if you have a bad ground to the ECU or a bad ground connection at the pump then it will do the same thing. What happens if you put 12v and a ground direct to the fuel pump and bypass the truck wiring? Will it run? As Ron asked, can you hear the pump run for a few seconds when you turn it on? The connector at the tank is notorious for going bad as it sits in a depression that collects water and crap.

You say you have changed the fuel filter. Did you put the new one in the right way round? There is an arrow on it that should point towards the engine (direction of flow).

The other thing to check and this is a stretch is the fuel pressure regulator. It controls the pressure in the rail by shutting off the return until the fuel pressure is high enough. It’s on the end of the fuel rail and has a vacuum hose connected. If its faulty then you may not be getting enough pressure in the rail to run. Unlikely but worth checking. A failure of the regulator would give you the same symptoms as a bad pump because you lose fuel pressure.

Lack of fuel at the Schrader valve if it’s not immobilized would cause me to go back through the fuel system step by step and verify it’s working. Do you have power and ground at the pump? Is the new pump actually working? Do you have the fuel lines hooked up the right way round at the tank? Is fuel getting past the fuel filter? Etc., Etc.

HTH

Ian

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old September 6th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Online
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,791
Fried and died..,.
Was the ECU swapped in before the fuel pump? Bit confused by your post.
Crank position sensor is next suspect.
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old September 6th, 2012, 06:17 AM
Giffstone
Status: Offline
Drew Tomkinson
1997 NAS Defender 90 SW #0369
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Centerville, MA USA
Posts: 24
Registry
Hey Ian, Ron, and Rocky

Thanks for the quick replies and I'm sorry I forgot to mention that I am a former certified tech who has been playing Rovers since I was sixteen (but not personally for about three years).....as in built my first series truck from a new frame and have had dozens of rovers (RRC, D90, D1, IIA, III, D2) over the ensuing fifteen years..... The pump grounds and connector are clean and intact, I have had the Autologic hooked up to it and have active fuel systems and ignition systems check out well and disabling the alarm system completely, the O2 sensors are awake and running the direct 12v fires the pump right up and the the pump primes when hooked up normally as well when the key is turned.... The fuel filter is correctly aligned however I have not checked the regulator (I knew I was forgetting something stupid!!) so I will check in the AM and see if that's the problem!! The ECM and and MAF were changed after the fuel pump was replaced just to see if I could get it to do something and then were changed back after nothing different happened.... sorry if I am confusing in my scattered posts... I just am at my wits end over something that's is probably so dumb lol thanks again for the replies and I will share the answer when it appears.... again any thoughts would be wonderful and thanks again

Drew
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old September 6th, 2012, 08:22 AM
the rover shop
Status: Offline
shayne young
89,93 & 95 camel trophy 110s 06 130
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ft lauderdale florida
Posts: 5,225
Spray some ether in the air cleaner and crank it over..if it fires then your problem is definitely fuel related. You say the fuel pump is running but no pressure or fuel at the fuel rail schrader valve..??"..if that's the case my mind is on the hoses being connected the wrong way around at the pump.disconnect the lines from the pump and energise it and see if the pump is pumping... . The fuel pressure regulator won't let the fuel go backwards through the rail.. Energise the pump with a direct feed and try to start it.. If it starts and runs then your problem is a power feed to the pump..You may find the pump to be running but not pumping or the hose inside the pump unit has come off or split..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old September 6th, 2012, 08:47 AM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Online
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,505
Registry
I don't know much about GEMS, but in 14CUX when all else checks out and it still won't start it is usually the ignition amplifier module. I don't know what the equivalent thing is, but it's my guess that there is either a wire loose, or something that is preventing the timing signal from reaching the coils.

------ Follow up post added September 6th, 2012 08:49 AM ------

I am sorta thinking Shayne's onto something with the switcheroo at the pump. Easy mistake.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 6th, 2012, 09:44 AM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post

------ Follow up post added September 6th, 2012 08:49 AM ------

I am sorta thinking Shayne's onto something with the switcheroo at the pump. Easy mistake.
Not sure if the 97's fuel pumps are like the 95's but I've done it at least once. Like o2batsea said - easy mistake.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 6th, 2012, 11:04 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Swapped lines if the pump is running. You can eliminate the regulator as an issue by disconneting the line at the filter and seeing if gas comes out.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 7th, 2012, 09:16 AM
the rover shop
Status: Offline
shayne young
89,93 & 95 camel trophy 110s 06 130
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ft lauderdale florida
Posts: 5,225
Any updates..???
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old September 18th, 2012, 03:49 PM
Giffstone
Status: Offline
Drew Tomkinson
1997 NAS Defender 90 SW #0369
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Centerville, MA USA
Posts: 24
Registry
Hey all.....just got back to it yesterday and feeling slightly ridiculous.....found a short to ground in the negative circuit that was allowing enough power to prime but then not running the fuel pump afterwords..... annoyed is the understatement but it did cause me to replace the rotten skid plate and sway bar mounts......while I was back there did rear brakes, calipers, seals, brake lines......etc...... thanks for all the help and suggestions....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
start

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Truck will not START ? Weldon Defender Technical Discussions 28 December 15th, 2005 12:58 PM
HELP 94 d90 will not start ripp2002 Defender Technical Discussions 64 August 25th, 2005 08:43 AM
95 won't start, possible fuel priming issue? jcasteel Defender Technical Discussions 1 March 15th, 2005 09:45 AM
Rats! Now my D90 won't start. No power to fuel pump jcasteel Defender Technical Discussions 8 March 15th, 2005 09:42 AM
Non D90 Technical Question jump start polarity problem dnewman9 Defender Technical Discussions 4 September 6th, 2004 05:39 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 PM.


Copyright