Help Identifying Engine Shut Off - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 28th, 2006, 10:10 PM
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Help Identifying Engine Shut Off

Well, I solved one of the reasons why my 90 was shutting off seemingly randomly, and I thought I had it figured out until today.
I went over some railroad tracks today and i felt a jolt like i had slammed it into gear too fast, the check engine light and oil light came on for a fraction of a second, and then it was driving fine. All untill i hit the clutch, the RPM's went to zero and the engine died.
This has happened several times before, but like i said, I thought I had figured it all out. Anyways. The truck will run as long as I dont hold the clutch and let the RPM's drop to zero.
What could this be?
Thanks in advance
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  #2  
Old May 29th, 2006, 12:13 AM
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Sounds like a bad Vehicle Speed Sensor maybe. Or possibly a dirty mass air flow sensor. I know there had been a notice issued by Land Rover that covered this, but I don't have the specifics.

-Hans
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  #3  
Old May 29th, 2006, 04:34 PM
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Hans,
Thanks for the reply. Can you tell/show me where the VSS and the air flow sensor are? can i even clean them up?
Any idea where I can find out if Land Rover should take care of this? Ide love to hear the specifics about the notice.
Thanks again
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Old May 29th, 2006, 10:39 PM
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I'll see if I can dig up the info from Land Rover on that problem.

The Vehicle Speed Sensor is located down underneath, connected to the speedometer cable, and next to the transfer case. But if that was bad, it should have given you a check engine light.

The Mass Air Sensor is under the hood connected to the air filter housing.

-Hans

Follow-up Post:

I'm having trouble finding the service bulletin, but I did have another idea. Maybe you have an air leak somewhere in the intake system?

-Hans
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  #5  
Old May 30th, 2006, 12:23 AM
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Well,
the same sorta thing happened to me again tonight, but there was no bump involved. Code 03 popped up which doesnt help me much. It seemed like I had a few cylinders not firing though, it was running really rough and sounded awful. The RPM's were going to 0 and then came up to like 300 then died...
Does this seem like the same problem or a different one?
I checked the distributor a little while ago and it was clean, and i just changed plugs and wires(it was happening before).
This is kinda bumming me out.....
Is there anything I can do for the VSS? If so, can you tell me what and send a pick of what it actually is. I dont know what im looking for.
Thanks again Hans
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  #6  
Old May 30th, 2006, 12:32 AM
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You might look at the coil connections. The spade terminals will get loose & corroded and cause random stalling & misfiring. You can usually locate this problem by pulling & wiggling the wire harnass with the engine running. If it hasn't already been done, cut off the spade terminals and crimp & solder some ring terminals onto the wires and bolt them down solid. You might look at the power & ground connections as well. Pay special attention to the grounds at the back of the left cylinder head as well as the connections at the B+ post of the starter.
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  #7  
Old May 30th, 2006, 08:18 AM
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And the rotor Especially if it's 3 months old and from NAPA.
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  #8  
Old May 30th, 2006, 11:11 PM
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OK, i opened up the dizzy cap and saw a little corrosion on the individual points, so i cleaned them up, but I really dont think that was the problem for when I hit the bump. And I dont think that would explain the RPMs would it?
I changed the Coil connections about a year ago, but i wiggled them just in case, nothing happened. So i think those are fine.
Any other ideas? Keep em coming guys!
Thanks for all the help already
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  #9  
Old May 31st, 2006, 07:55 AM
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How high do you have to hold the RPM's?
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  #10  
Old May 31st, 2006, 12:27 PM
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Anything above zero keeps the engine running. But if i put the clutch in they dive to zero fast then bounce around a little before dying if i dont put it in gear.
This only happens when its in "run like crap mode" 98% of the time the truck runs fine.
Im pretty sure it has to be a loose connection, based on how random it is, and the fact that the first time it happened this year was after i hit some railroad tracks.

I guess ill just start looking for connections that can be attached more securely.
Is this the advise you guys are telling me?
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  #11  
Old June 1st, 2006, 08:17 AM
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Kris:

I think you're stuck until it gets worse and you can narrow it down further. I think you're right in that something is loose, and you've been given some good places to start.
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  #12  
Old June 1st, 2006, 09:49 AM
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Kris, on the 30th you said no bump was involved... Did the truck start right back up? And were you able to drive it? If so, this is starting to sound more like a bad catalytic converter to me... coughing, sputtering, dying. Any smoke or smell? because those are the give aways, but I don't think they're always present. That's an easy check any muffler shop can do.

Just a thought.
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  #13  
Old June 1st, 2006, 10:31 AM
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My truck did the same thing over the weekend. I would be driving along fine and then all of a sudden it would act like it was only firing on some of the cylinders. A horrible eye watering smell would come into the cab also. If I put in the clutch when I came to a stop it would shut off. If I was driving, I would put in the clutch and rev the engine and sometimes it would come out of it. Other times I had to pull off the highway and it would stall. Then I would re-start it and I would be fine for a while. At first I thought it was when I hit bumps too, but that turned out to be just a coincidence. I thought this was because my truck sits alot, but I guess not. I also have cleaned my stepper motor.

By the way, while I was pulled over on the highway on Sunday, a Green Soft top drove by (On I-84 west near cromwell, CT) and didn't stop. Is that anyone on here?
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  #14  
Old June 1st, 2006, 10:34 AM
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Ernie, I'd say you almost certainly have a bad cat.
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Old June 1st, 2006, 10:48 AM
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Thanks Dave, I feel better about it now knowing I have a direction to go in. This may be a dumb question, but is there anything that can be done about it besides buying a new setup from one of the vendors?
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  #16  
Old June 1st, 2006, 11:00 AM
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Sure, just get them replaced with a universal high-flow cat at just about any muffler shop. They sometimes have trouble with the passenger side cat, as it's tight to the frame and a universal has to be mounted on it's side. That's what I've got on mine with zero issues, and I know others have the same. I do think the muffler guy heated and moved my down pipe a little to accomodate that tight cat.

I had a guy at a Tuffy Muffler or something not want to touch mine, but he was an idiot, you'd think I brought him a ferrari 12 cylinder instead of a buick 215 . If you can skip the chains and find a decent custom muffler shop, one that racers use, you'll be better off, IMO.

My guy actually wanted to just cut out the cats, b/c I lived in Florida at the time with no emissions, but I already new I was moving up to RI so I had him replace them.

Follow-up Post:

If you do find that custom shop, have him throw in a flowmaster and custom tail pipe for ya at the same time! Less weight, better clearance on the tail pipe, and sweet sound. All that will be cheaper than a Y pipe with cat's from any of the sources.

YMMV
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  #17  
Old June 1st, 2006, 12:08 PM
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Make sure when he pulls the O2 sensor out before he welds in the new CAT as well....more than one has been fried that way...it's kinda close
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  #18  
Old June 1st, 2006, 12:15 PM
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I forgot all about that, but it happened to me as well. Shop paid for the O2 sensor.
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  #19  
Old June 1st, 2006, 05:15 PM
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Dave,
My truck 99% of the time starts up after about a 2 minute wait.
The last time it acted up there was black smoke out of the tail pipe and the same awful sulfery smell.
You really think the cats can do that They never came to mind! Ill have to check that out.
Thank you so much for the help




P.S.
Could a sign of bad cats be a strange rattleing that occurs randomly, but most often at idle when stopped?
I think it is unrelated as It sounds like it is coming from the front half of the car on the passengers side, but you never know.
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  #20  
Old June 1st, 2006, 05:59 PM
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The black smoke and sulfur smell is the truck running extremely rich, and being overly flooded with fuel. It's something that can make the cats go bad if it happens enough times, but not something that they cause. The rattling cats is fairly common with factory ones, annoying but harmless.

Starting to sound to me that it's more like a mixture issue, or possibly an injector getting stuck opened.

-Hans
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