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  #1  
Old August 29th, 2014, 10:36 AM
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I'm in Piscataway, NJ (driving back to Dallas, TX). AAA towed me to Pepboys. Last night, on I-287, my clutch would not depress the full distance. It stops short about an inch or two, which does not allow allow me to put it in gear. I checked the clutch reservoir and it is at least half full, which the guy here says should at least be enough to engage. It's as if something is blocking it from going the remaining distance. No tools, no knowledge, just stuck on this trip. Any ideas for help. 972-975-8731
Just realized ... 1988 Defender 110. Might help.
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  #2  
Old August 29th, 2014, 10:38 AM
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I will PM you there is a large group from NJLR nearby.


I posted it on NJLR.org. There is a few guys in Bridgewater that might be able to help
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  #3  
Old August 29th, 2014, 10:49 AM
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Is it at Pepboys now? I would say to bleed the clutch out and refill with new fluid. Is it like rockhard at that last inch?
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  #4  
Old August 29th, 2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
Is it at Pepboys now? I would say to bleed the clutch out and refill with new fluid. Is it like rockhard at that last inch?
Yes. I'm in their lot. Just topped it off and no change.
Your description is right on... Stops that last inch, rock hard.
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Old August 29th, 2014, 11:15 AM
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This came on suddenly?

Open Bleed valve.
Can you depress pedal to floor?
If yes, Master Cylinder is your suspect. Replace.

If no, check the clutch pedal box for any pins etc that are blocking full and proper movement. If that doesn't do it, I would suspect a failure in the mechanism between the pedal and plate. Which is preferable to any problems with the plate.
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  #6  
Old August 29th, 2014, 11:20 AM
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It sounds like one or more of the bolts that hold the belhousing to the main box have come loose and jammed in the pressure plate or clutch lever and no amount of force will move it.

Have taken 2 vehicles apart, same issue each time.
It is sometimes possible to drive it by starting in 3rd or 4th gear, but only for a short distance as long as you don't need to stop often.

I am in VA south of you, so too far away to be useful except to provide "arm chair quarter back" advice.

Good luck and keep us all posted.
So sorry about your mishap.
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  #7  
Old August 29th, 2014, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
It sounds like one or more of the bolts that hold the belhousing to the main box have come loose and jammed in the pressure plate or clutch lever and no amount of force will move it. Have taken 2 vehicles apart, same issue each time. It is sometimes possible to drive it by starting in 3rd or 4th gear, but only for a short distance as long as you don't need to stop often. I am in VA south of you, so too far away to be useful except to provide "arm chair quarter back" advice. Good luck and keep us all posted. So sorry about your mishap.
Right before it happened I noticed that 3rd and 4th gear were significantly easier to get into than 1st or 2nd.

Should I see if I could get over to a transmission shop?
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  #8  
Old August 29th, 2014, 01:01 PM
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Hmm easier in 3rd & 4th, harder in 1st & 2nd.

If it is low on fluid, and you need to check if you haven't already, then you could also have a bearing failure, but based on the limited data you provide, your issue still sounds much like a bolt or 3 jammed in the clutch area blocking an otherwise functioning clutch.

Again, it's all supposition at this juncture, but that's what it sounds like to me.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #9  
Old August 29th, 2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Hmm easier in 3rd & 4th, harder in 1st & 2nd. If it is low on fluid, and you need to check if you haven't already, then you could also have a bearing failure, but based on the limited data you provide, your issue still sounds much like a bolt or 3 jammed in the clutch area blocking an otherwise functioning clutch. Again, it's all supposition at this juncture, but that's what it sounds like to me.
Thank you for the follow up. The fluids were at half... The guy here (at Pepboys) said it should still engage. I went ahead and topped it off and no change.
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  #10  
Old August 29th, 2014, 01:13 PM
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this sounds very familiar to what happened to me last year. went to depress the clutch to shift from 2nd to 3rd and it felt funny, like half the pedal travel and inconsistent pressure/resistance. It would shift on the run but if you started it in neutral and depressed the clutch it would not disengage enough to allow you to put it into any gear......however, if you started the truck with the pedal depressed in 1st or 2nd it would allow you to get it going. Bottom line is that it would not fully disengage the clutch.


Naturally, I checked the reservoir first, it was fine, then consulted the board here and went about replacing both master and slave with no luck (nothing was leaking but I started with those replacements)


You may also take a look at the end of the clutch fork where the slave cylinder pushrod actuates. Sometimes this "seat" can wear through allowing the pushrod to push right through the clutch fork. Just be super careful not to drop anything down inside the bellhousing (ask me how I know).


I was not so lucky to have the first two potential issues.....
So, as it turns out....after separating the bellhousing from the engine, we found that something had gone wrong with the throwout bearing (maybe it ate something, debris, nut, who knows), but it seized, spun and in the process mangled one of the clutch fork pivots.


Needed a new clutch fork, throwout bearing and of course "while you're in there" type of stuff.


Not something you want Pep Boys to get involved with in any event.


While you're at Pep Boys though, have them send a boroscope into the belhousing and look around at the throwout bearing. They could be useful for that.
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  #11  
Old August 29th, 2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JASEcrest View Post
Thank you for the follow up. The fluids were at half... The guy here (at Pepboys) said it should still engage. I went ahead and topped it off and no change.
Topping it off won't do anything, bleeding the system will. The problem is almost always the slave cyl down @ the front of the bell housing. When that leaks, its often into the bell housing and not even apparent. Point is the gravity from the res isn't going to displace air that enters the hydraulic system @ the bottom.

I agree with Robert- your scenario sounds significant. If you still have pedal its not likely that the clutch fork pivot pushed through the fork.

------ Follow up post added August 29th, 2014 01:19 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post


You may also take a look at the end of the clutch fork where the slave cylinder pushrod actuates. Sometimes this "seat" can wear through allowing the pushrod to push right through the clutch fork.
Never seen that. Have seen and experienced a couple clutch fork failures @ the pivot point however, now only buy the heavy duty clutch fork which is still a joke but has a double layer of metal @ the pivot point cup.
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  #12  
Old August 29th, 2014, 01:28 PM
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Then your next step is to get a 13mm or 1/2" socket on an extension and extract the slave cylinder.
Then see if the slave is leaking.
If it is leaking then Uncle Richard has the return from PI Chevy wheel cylinder fix scenario.
If it's dry, a loose belhousing bolt just may be jammed in there... I hope this is not the case.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #13  
Old August 29th, 2014, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Topping it off won't do anything, bleeding the system will. The problem is almost always the slave cyl down @ the front of the bell housing. When that leaks, its often into the bell housing and not even apparent. Point is the gravity from the res isn't going to displace air that enters the hydraulic system @ the bottom.

I agree with Robert- your scenario sounds significant. If you still have pedal its not likely that the clutch fork pivot pushed through the fork.

------ Follow up post added August 29th, 2014 01:19 PM ------



Never seen that. Have seen and experienced a couple clutch for failures @ the pivot point however, now only buy the heavy duty clutch fork which is still a joke but has a double layer of metal @ the pivot point cup.
here is what Doug and I are talking about.....
one arrow shows the beginning of the "seat" failure where the push rod would push through and the other pivot point is where mine was mangled. one of the two was sheered off and the clutch has some movement because one was still able to push. It's hard to say because at that point were we playing CSI trying to piece together WTF happened.
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  #14  
Old August 29th, 2014, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
here is what Doug and I are talking about..... one arrow shows the beginning of the "seat" failure where the push rod would push through and the other pivot point is where mine was mangled. one of the two was sheered off and the clutch has some movement because one was still able to push. It's hard to say because at that point were we playing CSI trying to piece together WTF happened.
Thank you. I'm having AAA take me to a guy that works on defenders. After he looks at it, I show him y'all's thoughts.

Hopefully, he will be able to get me back on the road.

And thanks for the pic. Pictures say a thousand words.
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  #15  
Old August 29th, 2014, 02:15 PM
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if the slave is leaking, pull the master and slave, and send them out to have them sleeved in brass, and then you never have to do it again.
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  #16  
Old August 29th, 2014, 02:35 PM
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Very good idea, Mark.

I got the impression that Jason was trying to get somewhere fast (Dallas) and didn't have time to drive all the way through Uganda when going from Nairobi to Tanzania (so to speak)... still a good idea though.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #17  
Old August 29th, 2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
if the slave is leaking, pull the master and slave, and send them out to have them sleeved in brass, and then you never have to do it again.
I used these guys years back.

http://www.whitepost.com/

Also, could he just remove the wading plug to see if fluid pours out?
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  #18  
Old August 29th, 2014, 03:36 PM
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Here's who I used for mine. http://www.applehydraulics.com/brakes.htm

fortunately, when my original guerling stared leaking, I replaced it with another but kept it. Several years brings me to now. Earlier this year I started getting some drips out of the replacement. Sent my old guerling MC off to Apple Hydraulics and came back completely overhauled and sleeved in brass. it now sits as a spare in my passenger seat box along with belts, hoses and bearings waiting for the day I have to do something about my new leaking MC. Only cost about $150 incl shipping and tooke about a week and a half turnaround.
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  #19  
Old August 29th, 2014, 05:27 PM
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Thank you for the responses. I was able to get it to Montclair, NJ. There's a guy there that is going to look at it.
I'll know better tomorrow morning. Being a 3-day weekend, I'm probably going to fly back home and figure another time to come get it. Frustrating.
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  #20  
Old August 29th, 2014, 06:05 PM
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That's a bummer Jason sorry. There's never a good time for something like that to detonate and it's unfortunate that it happens going into,Labor Day.

Hope our suggestions/thoughts help you get there faster.

Actually in looking at that picture, I may have mislabeled that so double check, but there is an issue with the push rod sometimes pushing through the stamped metal. In my case the pivot was damaged and it's sounds a lot like your situation.
I'm curious to see what happened
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