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  #21  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 10:20 AM
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PT94D90



I was about to suggest the aforementioned...That was the only thing that saved me from being towed from the middle of no where after wheeling one time. It will blow black smoke once started this is normal.



My only other suggest would be to check your grounds, battery (12V), battery cables, alternator (13.68-14.2 v), starter (12V)..This can all be done with an OHMS reader.



In my situation I had driven 200 miles and stopped to run to the ladies room, came back out and the rover would not start. It was the end of the fuel pump. Crank, Crank, Crank…… No go. After what seemed like the 18 time of priming the pump it started; pressed the pedal to the medal and was able to get back on the highway. HTH
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  #22  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 10:44 AM
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Second morning update. 9am

OK went down the list of the hacked versions because they seem easier. Now we are pulling a plug and checking injectors (which I really am unconfortable doing).

Masf was unpluged and still same outcome.

Swapped relays and pump still came on. BUT the two relays that are in there are Bosch. Does this mean they are the wrong ones? It was working with them before. I think they are 12 v 30a if I remember correctly. But again it was working fine with them for who knows how long before this.

Took the ECU out again. Looks completely dry. I had to dust it off just to make sure. It will be a lot easier to get to next time. Hopefully this will not happen again. I do not know anyone in Chicago to swap ECU with so that option is not going to happen.

Back to work we go. Anymore suggestions will be welcomed.

Thanks again,
Larry

Follow-up Post:

I will also your idea. Hoping something works.

Thanks again,
Larry
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  #23  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 12:06 PM
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jim pendleton
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Change the spark plugs. And do not use those crappy Bosch Platinum. Use some NGK or Champion plugs. Old style with single prong.
You have flooded it and your plugs are Prolly fouled.


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  #24  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 12:06 PM
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3rd am update 10:30

OK, pulled a spark plug lots of gas there. Also tried starting it with plug out and could see spark. Also tried heating the distributer cap with a hair dryer to make sure there was no moisture or anything in there.

Again tried the unplugging the injector wire but nothing. Did manage to get a backfire (maybe not sure) in manifold. Or maybe closer to a start. It was muffled and only happened once what ever it was. Didnt sound bad though cause it was something differant.

Plugged everything back in and it started. No it didnt Im just f-ing with you all. It still doesnt start!!! Thought maybe someone could have a smile for the day.

My brothers next thought could be timing etc... We do not have the tools here for anything like that so its going to be put on a flat bed and towed to a shop. He will be able to check completely. Ill let you know the outcome. Either way. Hope its simple

However I DID find a fuel cutoff for a 94. If anyone asks its behind the fusebox on the drivers side about 4 inches in. Last black box which sits a little lower then the two boxes to the left of it. It was not showing the red plunger thingy until i pulled on it. But it wouldnt start with it plunged in or pulled out. But that is where it is in a 94 for future reference.

Put the regular air filter back in and still the same thing. Its right there just wont go.

But if you guys could answer me about the coil issue MSD or acel etc..., and the bosch relays that would be much apprecaited.

I am not sending it to the Land Rover shop because they can not get to it until Wednesday. I need to be back in North Carolina Monday. Oh wait im a day late already.
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  #25  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 03:02 PM
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Humm,

Did you try unplugging the O2s?

One other thing to check. How high is the oil level?

Mine would not start once because the injectors stuck on (bad ECU) and flooded the engine and raised the oil level so much it would not start.

No matter what you do, change the oil before you go back to NC. The oil is probably full of gas.

I give up!

Ron

Follow-up Post:

The relays are supposed to be bosch and silver metal.
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  #26  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 05:34 PM
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Will do

I got a new cap, rotor and cables from land rover to put on. I have no idea. Its just plain pissed me off. Shouldnt be that complicated. Mechanic should be able to plug it in and find out whats up. I will have him change the oil again just to be on the safe side as you suggested. Ill let you know what they tell me. Hopefully I will hear something soon.

Thanks again for all your help guys,
Larry

Follow-up Post:

Also going to put new plugs in because I am sure the ones in there are shitty by now. Might do the coil thing but waiting to hear from him. Anyone know the chances it could be a messed up timing chain or belt?

Thanks again,
Larry
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  #27  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 09:26 PM
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Robert Dassler
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Larry,
I agree with Pendy...sounds like it's flooded. Pull the plugs and let it sit overnight, then install new plugs in the morning...NGK are good.
The relays you have are probably correct if the truck was running before...silver Bosch relays...they are special relays in the way that they are wired and switched internally.
I've always used the factory Bosch coils and never felt the need to upgrade...if you do, make sure the resistance across the primary side of the coil you select matches what is on the truck.
I have heard of ECUs going bad and keeping the injectors turned on but I've never personally seen it as Ron has.
I'd be surprised if the problem was timing gear related as the truck ran the night before. I think it is a case of overfueling or an electrical issue rather than a mechanical issue. If you have sufficient spark at the plugs, I would not rush to replace the coil...work on clearing the flood condition and, if possible, determine it's cause first.
Good luck, Rob
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  #28  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 10:19 PM
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I am just throwing stuff out here .. FTS or maybe the ECTS? I am not sure if the engine has those sensors but they both contributed to my no start problems in the past.

I do not think it is timing either. I feel your pain. Hang in there it will get resolved.
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  #29  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 10:21 PM
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probally the etc or hdc or etc maybe lsd or thc?

could the oily K&N have fouled the MAF??
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  #30  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
probally the etc or hdc or etc maybe lsd or thc?
No Phil Deez .... That is your Rover .........

I am sorry I should have posted the full term (FTS= Fuel Temp Sensor) or the ECTS (Coolant Temp Sensor) !
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  #31  
Old January 3rd, 2005, 11:14 PM
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Mike Hill
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I had a very similiar problem with my 95 on a long road trip and after 10 hours troubleshooting in a campground and several sets of spark plugs, new coil, swapped wires, we got it started by pulling the fuel pump relay, cranking the engine while pumping the gas pedal and then plugging the relay in while doing so. It seemed to need more air to the fuel ratio. Kinda of ghetto advise but, somehow it worked. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator since and the problem hasn't returned.
Good luck, been there and feel your frustration. - Mike
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  #32  
Old January 5th, 2005, 10:27 AM
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Larry, where have you gone? I am eager to know what the diagnosis is/was, having read all these posts & suggestions.
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  #33  
Old January 6th, 2005, 04:49 PM
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Have you tried disconnecting the battery for a minute to reset the ECU? Also make sure the signal wire is going to the negative side of the coil. It has a tendency to get knocked off. I changed my connector to a ring type because this happened too often. it is black with a white stripe running from the fire wall behind the engine. look hard as iot is not easily noticeable. It will not run without that wire connected.
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  #34  
Old January 7th, 2005, 09:33 PM
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Sorry so long to reply. Saga got better and worse

Well the saga goes on and on. Once it was towed they had it started within 10 minutes.

Diagnosis. Flooded. Pulled the plugs out used a blow torch on them and it started immediately. BUT this is the reason nothing helped in terms of what we tried. Two of the plug wires were on the wrong plugs. Meaning that for the last who knows how long its been firing in the wrong order ( I could feel a slight miss in idle since I got the truck, which would explain that. Bought it two months ago). In this case the mechanic said if the two cylinders where in the up position ( never should be together) then it would never start anyway because the timing wouldnt allow it? Make sense? So the flooded situation lead to a more complicated situation. Either way got on the road Tuesday mid afternoon 4 pm central time. Put the K&N back in before I left for the trip.

Driving along went 190 miles on 3/4 tank of gas cruising 67.5-71.0 miles per hour (on a GPS not speedo). Got excited thinking damn might be working better now. Stopped outside Indy to get some gas. Started right up and im back on the road. Right before I hit Louisville KY I started hearing a clicking and humming from the rear end when I let off the gas. Thinking crap its the u joints no biggie ill make it to Lexington before the night. Got to Shelbyville and it was 10 times worse. Stopped for the night and made it to a reg mechanic first thing. Try to start the truck and it doesnt want to start. Think hrmm where are pages from D90 forum. Pull them out follow short advice and boom it starts. Im thinking woowee. Noise is even worse in the moring im thinking shit shit shit. He informs me that it is NOT the U joints and I need to go see a LR mechanic. Luckily there is one in Middlyville or some thing like 20 miles away. I start on my way over there and make it.

Once I speak to the service guy he tells me its going to be about 30 minutes they will work me in. Im thinking cool. He goes out to get vin number etc...

One guy looks at the truck cant find anything. So i drive him around the block he says holy shit. Starting point!!!! Light bulb!!! A more knowledgeable guy test drives it and figures out its the driveline. Says they can figure it out by removing the driveline, putting it in diff lock and seeing if the noise is still there. OK sounds like a plan. 20 minutes later he comes in and asks "excuse me sir can you tell me why your driveline is installed backwards?" Im like hrmm just bought the truck 2 months ago. Last time I know of anything to do with transimission work was when he had the r380 put in and the 2.5 lift kit done at Land Rover. He looked pussled and went back to work. 10 minutes later he comes back. "could you come with me I have to show you something." Ok. He shows me the transmission was never completely installed right and it will not go into diff lock. At this point my faith in my defender and LR is way way down. He takes a 3 foot breaker, pops it into diff lock so I go back to the lobby to wait and hear about my pile oh nuts. He shows up in front of the building and says lets go for a ride. So WOOOWEEEE no noise.

Im getting a little better at this point. But still stressing. He tells me I can make it back to NC using the front wheels only shouldnt cause too much trouble or anything. He calls a LR guru guy who ways the same just dont drive to fast. Before I leave I make sure he documents his findings on a work order. On my way again. but not too fast. Anyone know how many people pass you while your driving 50 on a major interstate and look at you like your a total jackass? I do about 4-8 per minute. 250 miles later and still on one tank of gas (im excited about the better mileage), the sound is back, check engine light comes on so I pull over. Rent a uhaul and a car hauler and tow the POS back to NC.

At this point, the next moring I undoo all the chains etc... try to pull it off the trailor it will not start. LOL I am thinking I know what to do. IT didnt work. Put chains back on and tow it to my mechanic guy. Who has three big boxes waiting for me. Brand new ARB bull bar, Safari guad sliders, and cats. He starts laughing his ass off which was sad. However takes him about 15 minutes to get it started. (He pulled the plug caps off slightly which supposedly allows for a hotter spark?)

Now today, I have all reciepts from previous owner, trans was installed 8k miles ago. in June 2004. 12 months and 12000 mile warrentee on parts and labor from land rover. Hopefully they will honor it and everything should be back to normal in two weeks. I now have to drive my POS work truck all the time. Hard to meet chics in a 87 ford ranger, oxidized faded baige(looks pink), with lots of rust accents.

Anyway, Thanks for all the help and support. Sorry it took me so long to get back on here. But was not near a computer.

Thanks again,
Larry

Follow-up Post:

ONE MORE THING!!! Anyway know a reason the driveline would be installed backwards?
Also aftermarket driveline? Is there one?
High pro ECU or chip?

Thanks again,
Larry

Follow-up Post:

Anyone know where to order custom made black powder coat diamond plate panels for the back corners or a D-90. I ordered the set from North Brit or one of those sites but do not like them. Wanted something more hrmm manly. Does LR make black ones? I like their design better.

Thanks again,
Larry
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  #35  
Old January 7th, 2005, 11:11 PM
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Wow Larry! Not a good trip at all. What do you mean by driveline? Maybe driveshaft by the sound of it, they could put it in backwards as it has the same bolt pattern at both ends. The slip joint on it should go towrds the T-case.

The trans should not have much to do with the t-case going into diif lock, and if they were not installed right I would think they wouldn't work well together, as the engine, tranns and t-case all have to be bolted up correctly together to work. Maybe they did not hook the linkage up right? I can't see why you would need a 3 foot breaker bar to shift it, I would think the shaft or linkage would break? Anyway glad to see you made it home, and bummer on having to drive the work truck.
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  #36  
Old January 8th, 2005, 05:17 AM
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Hang in there Larry! With all you have been through, you are due for some for some good times and fun in your 90. I think we all can put any of our small problems or issues with our LR's in to perspective after reading your story. Keep us posted on your progress! Good Luck!
~chris~
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  #37  
Old January 8th, 2005, 07:42 AM
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$13,000 as she sits. Let me drive it until the end of summer it will be all sorted out and you can buy it back for expenses.
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  #38  
Old January 8th, 2005, 11:52 AM
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Well the last one I wrote didnt gave me some invalid something or other. Ill make it more brief this time around

Drive shaft yes that is what I meant. I was just using the terms he told me. I do have a couple questions about that.

One: Drive shafts are balanced? Hense the reason the add weights to them in cases to make sure they do not leave uneven ware and tare on the rear end and transmission and in the long run major problem? Or is this incorrect? or partially right or wrong? I am just trying to understand everything a little more. They replaced the transmission and rebuilt the driveline in june. Sept the clutch, master and slave cylinder. Then the lift kit again in Sept. With the lift shouldnt they use a seperate drive shaft or is the lift not enough? Would they need to drop the transmission for the clutch and stuff? Again just trying to understand with my limited knowledge.

Mike I think you hit it on the head with the t case versus transmission. I tend to look at it as one thing as transmission. But it would be the diff lock linkage between the two that wouldnt be installed correctly. The tech was about 5'7 and had the truck lifted to just below his height. I am about 6'2 and couldnt see a damn thing where he was pointing his flashlight. At that time I was so frustrated I really was not even paying attention. Only think hrmm 2,3,4,5k? How much is this gonna cost. Hopefully the warrentee takes care of anything that was messed up or broken during this whole thing. Trip hope cost approximately 2k. Hopeing to cut my losses with that.

Also any answers on custom driveshafts? Rear ends? If the warranty doesnt cover it I might go that way instead. Looking forward to hearing back and it should be fixed in the next two weeks. Either way maybe I can tag along for the Moab thing in June.

Let me know about the parts if anyone knows. Or a site that could help me.

Thanks,
Larry
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  #39  
Old January 8th, 2005, 03:51 PM
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Brian Bonner
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why are you looking for a custom d/s? do you want a double cardon? SG makes them and GB makes them. BG is cheaper. Custom rear end? What are you looking to do?
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  #40  
Old January 8th, 2005, 04:32 PM
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Christopher Stanish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
$13,000 as she sits. Let me drive it until the end of summer it will be all sorted out and you can buy it back for expenses.
Hey Ron, I thought you had already found another 90. Maybe you could start a summer camp for disfunctional 90's, then return them all sorted out in the fall? Sounds like a good plan to me. How did you make out with that engine install?
~chris~
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