Heater fan upgrade in the NAS D-90???? - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old July 9th, 2012, 10:50 PM
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Doc:

If you're interested in attempting this upgrade, I'm in your neck of the woods in Bolton Landing and would likewise be interested in tackling it.
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  #22  
Old July 11th, 2012, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taoseno
The biggest upgrade I did to my heater was to put on SW doors; I even stopped using the drop curtain after that so if anyone needs a drop curtain..............SW doors =- huge improvement! It gets really cold (routinely below zero) here as well..............
Interesting you say that. Having compared the size of the heater matrix in D90/110 with other LR's I'd begun to suspect that it's the loss of heat from the cabin that's much of the cause of complaints.
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  #23  
Old July 11th, 2012, 12:58 PM
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There have been other threads here about enlarging the hole on the firewall and I don't know if that helps or not. I bought this truck new so I know my hole was not enlarged..........The only downside to the SW doors is you lose about an inch of elbow room on both sides.........Stock heater stock 3.9
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  #24  
Old July 12th, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Happened to be at Autozone today so I grabbed one of these. Not bad, less than $25 with a limited lifetime warranty. Now just need to find some time to put it in but that will probably wait til fall
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  #25  
Old July 24th, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
Happened to be at Autozone today so I grabbed one of these. Not bad, less than $25 with a limited lifetime warranty. Now just need to find some time to put it in but that will probably wait til fall
So the Autozone one will fit into a D90 hsg, if the hole is enlarged ?
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  #26  
Old July 24th, 2012, 01:27 PM
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My two cents..... The fan is not the limiting factor with the heaters. The heater core is the problem. Small and poorly designed.

In addition, the stock venting system is very restrictive and limits the flow more than the fan.

You can see some testing of the stock unit here: http://www.red90.ca/rovers/Heater/heater.html Fan flow rate is not really that bad. Heater core efficiency is quite bad.

I need to update the page as I've completed the intake and outlet mods and the one I put in is way more than anyone needs. I'm easily pushing 3 times the stock heat output now. I would suggest the Heater Craft one mentioned.
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  #27  
Old July 24th, 2012, 01:31 PM
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There is always the aux heater.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=38431

self serving post.
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  #28  
Old July 24th, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landy_Andy View Post
So the Autozone one will fit into a D90 hsg, if the hole is enlarged ?
Can't comment yet as I picked one up based on research done but haven't had time to try the install yet (probably because it has been 100* lately!). I will post up in a new thread once I actually have time to install
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  #29  
Old December 18th, 2012, 10:03 AM
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Ok so running into some potential snags with this (as I've been attempting the swap), so figured I'd air it out here for input.

My initial thought is this *may* not work. From what I'm gathering, the LR blower uses a constant hot and closes ground to "activate" the blower motor. The GM (I believe) uses the housing as ground and power to it "activates" the blower motor. [Pics of both blower motors side-by-side attached...you'll see the LR one has 2 wires going to it via a pigtail, the GM one just has one spade connector.]
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The LR one has two wires - one for positive, one for ground. The switch (in the cabin) actually closes ground and is what "activates" the blower motor. So with the LR one there is always power to it, but not always ground. So the actual "motor" on the blower (I'm thinking) must be insulated from ground, and when the ground is closed (via the switch) this activates the blower motor. [LR blower motor schematic attached.]
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When I wired up the GM one, as soon as power goes to the unit, it's automatically (always) "on". And since there is a constant power to the unit (as there was with the LR one) the case on the GM unit closes the ground…and the unit is always on (whether you have the cabin switch on or off).

So...this is just a theory, but I'm wondering if I should pull the GM motor apart. There's just 4 rivets holding it on which I can drill out, and I'm thinking *if* there's an internal ground wire that grounds the motor to the chassis maybe I can just cut it...and then put a manual ground (i.e. the LR ground wire from the pigtail) to it so that it'll only close ground when the switch does. Or am I pipe dreaming here?
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  #30  
Old December 18th, 2012, 10:41 AM
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F that. Put in a relay, let the Defender heater switch that is grounded be the trigger for the relay, with the other relay coil switch being an ignition hot, and run a constant hot as the main lead to the motor through the relay, the main ground for the motor straight to chassis ground, and Bob's your uncle. If it fits, it ships. Your $15 away from making this a reality. Go, Go, Go!

If this works, I'll have a project next summer.
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  #31  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:10 AM
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Wouldn't a provision need to be made for the two-position fan speed switch?
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  #32  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
F that. Put in a relay, let the Defender heater switch that is grounded be the trigger for the relay, with the other relay coil switch being an ignition hot, and run a constant hot as the main lead to the motor through the relay, the main ground for the motor straight to chassis ground, and Bob's your uncle. If it fits, it ships. Your $15 away from making this a reality. Go, Go, Go!

If this works, I'll have a project next summer.
I've got a Hella relay here, I'll try to mock something up and see if it works. I do get what you're saying...seems like in theory it should work. The only thing I need to wrap my head around is the multiple "speeds" of the fan.

Using the relay to close the ground would limit the constant hot as you indicated. The way the switch works, it closes either full ground (the green/gray wire) or a resisted ground (green/yellow wire). The green/gray is the "full speed", and the green/yellow is the "low speed" for the blower motor [shown below].

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But since the GM unit is internally grounded by the housing, you'd be losing that resistor ground (I'd guess) so by putting power to the GM unit you'd have just 1-speed (full I'd guess). So make this work on both speeds wouldn't you need to cut the internal ground for the GM motor all together in order to get both a high and low?
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  #33  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Wouldn't a provision need to be made for the two-position fan speed switch?
Bingo...I was typing the above as you posted this. Ed you're an electrical genius ....thoughts?
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  #34  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:15 AM
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So make this work on both speeds wouldn't you need to cut the internal ground for the GM motor all together in order to get both a high and low?
Correct.
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  #35  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:20 AM
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F low speed, full speed ahead! Damn the torpedoes! Ok, seriously, then the alternative is to go with a 2nd relay, wires the same way, except the low speed ground in the switch runs to the low speed relay with a resistor (ohms tbd) inline between relay main and motor input, and the hi speed switch wire runs to the hi speed relay and no inline resistor.

------ Follow up post added December 18th, 2012 11:22 AM ------

If you can easily cut the internal ground in the GM motor, then you can bypass the need for the switch ground to trigger the relays all together. question is how easy is that to do? You'll still need to add an inline resistor for the low speed.
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  #36  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
F low speed, full speed ahead! Damn the torpedoes! Ok, seriously, then the alternative is to go with a 2nd relay, wires the same way, except the low speed ground in the switch runs to the low speed relay with a resistor (ohms tbd) inline between relay main and motor input, and the hi speed switch wire runs to the hi speed relay and no inline resistor.
In looking inside the vent slots for the GM motor, I initially saw just the power wire (from the spade terminal) to the motor. But I now think I see a small loop of bare copper ground wire coming off it. If I crack this thing open, can't I just remove that ground wire from the blower housing and run an insulated wire out of the blower to splice into the switched ground in the Rover wiring pigtail? Would this be a bad idea? I'd be piggybacking and using the same resistor that is already in place on the Rover.

I know enough about wiring to get me in trouble, so feel free to poke holes in my theory. My main area of ignorance is with the resistor, and whether I'd be able to use the existing one that is in place or if that's a bad/dangerous idea (though I don't see why as long as things are properly fused).
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  #37  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Cut the ground and run it back to the switch.

Is there a way to mount the motor without allowing the chassis ground? Such as insulating the mounts?
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  #38  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
In looking inside the vent slots for the GM motor, I initially saw just the power wire (from the spade terminal) to the motor. But I now think I see a small loop of bare copper ground wire coming off it. If I crack this thing open, can't I just remove that ground wire from the blower housing and run an insulated wire out of the blower to splice into the switched ground in the Rover wiring pigtail? Would this be a bad idea? I'd be piggybacking and using the same resistor that is already in place on the Rover.

------ Follow up post added December 18th, 2012 11:24 AM ------



In looking inside the vent slots for the GM motor, I initially saw just the power wire (from the spade terminal) to the motor. But I now think I see a small loop of bare copper ground wire coming off it. If I crack this thing open, can't I just remove that ground wire from the blower housing and run an insulated wire out of the blower to splice into the switched ground in the Rover wiring pigtail? Would this be a bad idea? I'd be piggybacking and using the same resistor that is already in place on the Rover.

I know enough about wiring to get me in trouble, so feel free to poke holes in my theory.
easy enough to bench test with a 12V source. if it's just a few rivets, then there sounds like no real risk of ruining the motor.

Pretty sure the resistor on the OEM motor is internal on the motor, not inline. If not, then this is too easy.
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  #39  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
easy enough to bench test with a 12V source. if it's just a few rivets, then there sounds like no real risk of ruining the motor.

Pretty sure the resistor on the OEM motor is internal on the motor, not inline. If not, then this is too easy.
I thought the resistor was part of the switch???
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  #40  
Old December 18th, 2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
easy enough to bench test with a 12V source. if it's just a few rivets, then there sounds like no real risk of ruining the motor.

Pretty sure the resistor on the OEM motor is internal on the motor, not inline. If not, then this is too easy.
The resistor is not internal to the motor...it's actually inside of the pathway of the vent to inside the truck (I'd assume to keep it cool when it's functioning with the air that is circulating past?).

If you look at the diagram, you'll see that the round thing is the blower motor (that has the 1amp underneath), then upstream is the resistor.
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