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  #1  
Old May 28th, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Headlight problems

My headlight switch went out a while back and I finally got a new switch to replace it. At the time, as a work around I had just connected the wires together to get lights, but the low beam lights didn't come on - I had to push the turn signal stalk forward to activate the high beams. While mucking with the wires I accidentally touched them to ground at one point and blew the high beam fuses, but replaced them so I had lights for my drive home. Truck has just sat since, other than replacing the power steering pump and short daylight test drives.

Fast forward to today. Not surprisingly, putting in a new switch didn't hep this issue. And worse it seems now the only way to get the high beams is to pull the turn signal stalk towards the driver, which seems to be an entirely different circuit and works without the ignition on.

But still no low beams, or high beams by pushing the turn signal fork forward. All fuses are good. But I am not getting 12v to the two fuses for the low beams like I do for the high beam fuses when they are activated (by pulling the turn signal stalk towards the driver).

Any suggestions?

TIA,
charles
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  #2  
Old May 28th, 2012, 03:07 PM
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You need to trace the wiring... Look at the wiring schematic... You may have a burnt out wire or a bad connector.
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  #3  
Old May 28th, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Yeah I'm going to do that later - out of time now. The printed schematic I have shows relays in the circuits which leaves me totally skeptical if it, since we all know there aren't any! I should have an electronic copy somewhere.
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Old May 28th, 2012, 03:18 PM
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I'm only familiar with "normal" Defenders...but I assume it is the same on NAS ones. The power for the lights goes direct from the main 12V battery connection at the starter to the light switch then to the high/low switch and THEN to the fuses. From the fuses to the lights.

It could be the wiring or the high low switch as well. If you shorted something on the switch side, you will burn out something as it is not fuse protected.

Adding light relays is a damn good idea. The stock wiring drains a lot of power and does not really handle the lighting current very well.
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Old May 28th, 2012, 03:23 PM
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Charles Galpin
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I should have mentioned I have a new "spare" turn signal assembly switch which I already tried as well without better results.

Yes adding relays is what I should be doing, but short of bypassing all the existing wiring, including the part currently giving trouble, I still have to solve this problem anyway.
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  #6  
Old May 28th, 2012, 04:31 PM
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My understanding (from ROW wiring...havent delved into my NAS truck enough) is that there are essentially "distribution blocks" that I think are called header blocks or something. They take a power in and split it out - ie since there is one input wire from the switch (the blue one) but a separate left/right power feed for the headlight. Again not sure if this is the same for NAS trucks but would make sense, and in theory there would be one of these distribution blocks in between the switch and the fuse panel.
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  #7  
Old May 28th, 2012, 04:43 PM
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It's called a "header joint", referenced here:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=36932
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  #8  
Old May 28th, 2012, 05:10 PM
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The other option to fix is to run two new wires (one for each headlight low right & left) from the switch to the back of the fuse panel. That is if you fall short on tracing it.
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  #9  
Old May 29th, 2012, 10:03 PM
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Does your model have a headlight relay? My wiring is from a '99, and there's a headlight relay that's activated when the ignition switch is turned on. If that relay fails, you can only turn on the headlights by pulling the turn signal stalk towards the driver. Maybe you fried the relay when you shorted the wires - the fuses may not have blown fast enough.
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  #10  
Old May 29th, 2012, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael67 View Post
Does your model have a headlight relay? My wiring is from a '99, and there's a headlight relay that's activated when the ignition switch is turned on. If that relay fails, you can only turn on the headlights by pulling the turn signal stalk towards the driver. Maybe you fried the relay when you shorted the wires - the fuses may not have blown fast enough.
Negative, no relay on Charles' 94 NAS...I though the same thing at first, but wiring runs from the switch to the fuse box to the headlights. Possibly/likely a Header Joint in between the switch and the fuse block, though that's still up for debate.
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  #11  
Old May 29th, 2012, 11:43 PM
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Go back further in the circuit. Its upstream of the dip switch. All the juice flows from it through the dip switch which is why the switch burns out (stupid Lucas, STUPID!!). Relay is there to stop the headlights being on with the ignition off. If Charles grounded the wires he may have fried the contacts.

See attached. LS2 in this diagram.
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  #12  
Old May 30th, 2012, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Go back further in the circuit. Its upstream of the dip switch. All the juice flows from it through the dip switch which is why the switch burns out (stupid Lucas, STUPID!!). Relay is there to stop the headlights being on with the ignition off. If Charles grounded the wires he may have fried the contacts.

See attached. LS2 in this diagram.
However, the only thing to keep in mind is we've got power at the switch (brown wire) as well as 12V at both the red (marker lights) and 12v at the blue (headlights) at the switch - or if I recall from when I was there. So...12v at the switch but no power downstream at the fuse box at position F8 & F9 (low beams).

Charles, correct me if I'm wrong on that but that's what I remember from being at your place the other day.

It's also worth noting that we actually have power at the fuse box at the F9 & F10 position (which are the high beams).
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  #13  
Old May 30th, 2012, 07:51 AM
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Sadly I haven't had time to look at this again, but hope to this evening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Go back further in the circuit. Its upstream of the dip switch. All the juice flows from it through the dip switch which is why the switch burns out (stupid Lucas, STUPID!!). Relay is there to stop the headlights being on with the ignition off. If Charles grounded the wires he may have fried the contacts.

See attached. LS2 in this diagram.
This is the diagram I saw and decided was crap after seeing LS2 (although the 90 version)

I will track this relay down, but looking at the diagram I don't see how pulling the stalk (LS3) sends power to the high beams without that relay working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Charles, correct me if I'm wrong on that but that's what I remember from being at your place the other day.

It's also worth noting that we actually have power at the fuse box at the F9 & F10 position (which are the high beams).
When pulling the stalk, yes.

The easy way to describe it is that *everything* else works as normal, other than the low beams.
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  #14  
Old May 30th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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is the stalk the correct one?

Mine doesnt have a pull function ... that is standard on UK cars ... to pull to flash the headlights.
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  #15  
Old May 30th, 2012, 12:59 PM
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I'm out of live chickens.

The stalk should be stock. I have a new britpart one I am too lazy to install (the rubber boot is torn on the old) so I plugged that in without improvement. Pushing forward (normally) puts on the high beams. Pulling towards the drive flashes them. Right now only pulling works for me
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Old May 30th, 2012, 10:40 PM
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Bloody hell.

The first thing I did was check out the relay on the parts truck. Everything works fine there so swapped the relays and everything continued to work fine. Not the relay. It's the right most relay below the fuses on a '94 in case your searching for this.

While mucking around I noticed I could push the turn signal stalk forward now and get high beams. Interesting. So I plugged in the new turn signal switch and what do you know, headlights work. Very strange but good news.

So I pull the steering wheel (threads for a puller are 6mm, torque spec is 38nm on the big nut) and the old switch, and go about swapping the windshield wiper switch over to the new assembly. You'd think it would be pretty hard to screw up copying a piece of stamped metal, but Britpart managed to. After a little bit of work, I got that sorted.

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I put it all back together again to find my speedo wasn't working. I pulled the binnacle and found the sheath had separated from the end connector. It appeared to re-attach ok, so stuck it back onto the speedo and screwed the binnacle back in. Still no speedo! Time to call it a day.

But my headlights work
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Old May 30th, 2012, 11:56 PM
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Wait...so it was the TURN SIGNAL lever that was the issue? Not the headlight switch (even though that obviously needed to be replaced at the time since it disintegrated into pieces).

I guess it makes sense now since that lever also switches between low and high beams. It must've shorted out, but ironically at the time your headlight switch fell apart or due to hard wiring things up after the switch failed.
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  #18  
Old May 31st, 2012, 12:11 AM
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Charles, it's the same diagram for a 93 110 as for a 94/95 90. Only difference is one says 110 and the other says 90, otherwise they are identical. They are both the same circuit reference. My point was that there IS a relay in the circuit (albeit pointless). At the time I posted you hadn't mentioned that you had main beams (or I missed it), just that you had no lights and had arced the wires. What you did in hindsight is most likely melt the contacts in the dip switch (LS3) which is also the switch that most often melts.

Jason, the turn signal switch is also the dip switch, itís often referred to as the multifunction switch as it does turn signals, lights and horn. The other switch is the main lighting switch (LS1).

Sorry for the confusion but glad you got it fixed.

Ian
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Old May 31st, 2012, 07:53 AM
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No checking the relay was a great idea. I had been indoctrinated to believe there was no relay at all in the headlight circuit.

The real crazy part was that I *did* try another LS3 after putting in the new LS1 and it did *NOT* work then. So whatever was going on was intermittent.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory
Charles, it's the same diagram for a 93 110 as for a 94/95 90. Only difference is one says 110 and the other says 90, otherwise they are identical. They are both the same circuit reference.
Yep. I keep this in fav's when I don't have the truck near me.

http://www.internet-tools.co.uk/land...l%20(1993).pdf
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