Head job on a 4.6, what else should be done ? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old January 30th, 2011, 07:47 AM
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Head job on a 4.6, what else should be done ?

I'm planning to change head gaskets on wife's D2 4.6, is there anything i should change as I'll be deep inside ? water pump ? exhaust manifold bolts ? timing components ?
Labor here is inexpensive but if I have the time I'd like to do it myself. I usually take twice the time but it should be a good learning process.
thoughts ?
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  #2  
Old January 30th, 2011, 07:56 AM
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I believe you are supposed to replace the bolts too.
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Old January 30th, 2011, 08:20 AM
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The process of removing the heads will force replacement of a laundry list of gaskets. If you get a head gasket replacement "kit" from one of the usual suppliers it will contain just about everything you will need. You'll also need a set of new head bolts. There may be some unforseen things like busted studs, rusty nuts and the like. If you are feeling like you'd like to renew those in the interest of future wrenching, it is your call. Water pump, you might as well do since you're already in there. Get new bolts for it, the old ones are sometimes rusted. Also do a new set of belts and hoses. Might as well put in new plugs and wires too.

I also recommend replacing the factory hose clamps with all stainless AWAB hose clamps, which are available from Jamestowndistributors.com.
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  #4  
Old January 30th, 2011, 10:39 AM
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Get a full head gasket kit with head bolts.. if you order from will tillery from roverguy or justin from lucky8 and tell them its for a D2 they'll make sure you have everything you need. The Elring brand is allegedly the best. You don't *need* anything with the water pump, front cover, oil pan gasket, but if you have a leak on any of those, it's a good idea to get to them now while you have everything else apart.. When you take the heads off, get them checked, milled down, and a valve job if you want. Other than that, it's also a good time to do new wires & plugs since you have them all out [wire job on a D2 is not fun due to location of coil pack], and you may want to do a new serp belt if yours is older.
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Old January 30th, 2011, 11:25 AM
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Replace the rocker cover bolts as well
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Old January 30th, 2011, 07:48 PM
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Thanks guys, that's a lot of good info .
It's time for me to start, i have water dropping out of exhaust
I'll try to do a complete work, all bolts, water pump, spark plugs and cables, coolant hoses, etc...
As i'm doing the job myself I should invest the labor money in the truck.
What about timing components ?
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Old January 30th, 2011, 08:06 PM
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http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/9009B.cfm

Timing chain is easy enough, just make sure the two dots are aligned, and spin the crank by hand a couple of times to make sure everything is right... if its not, youll have problems [speaking from experience].

If you do that, you would be replacing almost all the gaskets on the block...

is it necessary? if any of those gaskets are leaking, then might as well, especially front cover... only way to see if the timing chain needs it AFAIK is to pull the front cover and see if there is slack in it... and once you do that, you need to replace the gaskets anyways.

One of the biggest problems of doing any work to the engine is the 'might as well do it while I'm there' which can get real expensive... always preventative maintenance that can be done.
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  #8  
Old January 31st, 2011, 07:49 AM
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Inline thermostat mod for sure 180 degree max!! It should be easy enough since all the coolant and hoses are coming off.

Gasket matching the intake ports will add a little time but worthwhile.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
Inline thermostat mod for sure 180 degree max!! .....Gasket matching the intake
Can you be more explicit, sorry i'm a V8 gasoline neophyte , all my rovers are diesels, except this thirsty bugger ...

Let's make this thread useful, as i'm into it i'm gonna list part
numbers and prices with the usual suspects.

By the way, how do i know if i have a "Bosch" engine ?
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Old January 31st, 2011, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
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By the way, how do i know if i have a "Bosch" engine ?

http://www.roverparts.com/Techtips/boschvsgems.cfm
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  #11  
Old January 31st, 2011, 10:23 AM
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If it's a D2 its a bosch
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  #12  
Old February 1st, 2011, 11:58 AM
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Parts list and some prices, feel free to chime in:


HOSES (7 in total):

expansion tank to radiator PCH000360 - RN 16.17 - AB 16.95
expansion tank to throttle body PCH000420 - RN 16.43 - AB 14.95
radiator top PCH000460 - RN 55.13 - AB 59.95
radiator bottom PCH119020 - RN 15.09 - AB 13.95
thermostat to water pump PEH000080 - RN 72.16 - AB 74.95
manifold to throttle body PEH101540 - RN 12.98 - AB 13.95
heater in/out PCH500040 - RN 19.42 - AB 19.95

No big differences for coolant hose prices between Atlantic British and RoversNorth.

HEAD GASKET SET

AB - head gasket composite V8 Bosch motors - 169.95
looks like a complete set plus ERR6434, ERR6621, ERR6622, ERR6623, ERR7202, MGM000010KG

RN - head gasket set V8 - 213.66
no pic or info, zip, niente.

CYLINDER HEAD BOLT KIT

RN - genuine 95.00 - proline 39.00
AB - 79.95

VALVE COVER GASKET & BOLT

I think gaskets are included in both RoversNorth and Atlantic British, but not
sure about screws so here it goes:
RN - no kit, bolts are 4.59 and 2.95
AB - valve cover gasket kit new style rubber is 29.95
including bolts, bolts alone are 1.95 (ERR7370 and ERR7371)

WATER PUMP - STC4378

AB - generic 99.95 - oem 159.95 (gasket included)
RN - proline 89.50 - genuine 289.00 (gasket included)

WATER PUMP BOLT KIT

AB - 9.95
RN - n/d

FRONT COVER GASKET - ERR7280

AB - 8.95
RN - genuine - 10.90

TIMING CHAIN KIT

AB - 109.95 - water pump gasket, front cover gasket and oil pan gasket included
RN - no kit, just the chain - 40.69

EXHAUST MANIFOLD BOLT (just in case of snapping)

AB - genuine - ERR6734 - 2.95
RN - genuine - 2.19

IGNITION WIRE SET

RN - genuine 187.95 - proline 43.50 (huge price difference)
AB - magnecor performance 7mm - 139.95

SPARK PLUGS

RN - dbl platinum - 13.65 each
AB - double platinum Bosch - 9.95 each
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  #13  
Old February 1st, 2011, 02:53 PM
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Honestly, i'd just call Will Tillery from RoverGuy or Justin from Lucky 8 and get everything...

The last head gasket kit I got from Justin was like $130 (it was the cheapest one he had), which included the head bolts. I've bought elring full set from Will Tillery before, and I believe it was under $200.

Ignition wires, I went with STI last time from will tillery... I think it was like $40-60 for the whole set.

Spark plugs, either get CHAMPION 7318 which are the double plats, or Champion 322 which are the copper... both should be a fraction of the cost of the other ones... a lot of different spark plugs will work too.

------ Follow up post added February 1st, 2011 02:54 PM ------

Also, whats the point of all the hoses? Are yours brittle or anything? The only ones that have ever given me problems are the hard lines.. and you can replace those with a better hose.
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  #14  
Old February 1st, 2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFD View Post
Parts list and some prices, feel free to chime in:


HOSES (7 in total):

expansion tank to radiator PCH000360 - RN 16.17 - AB 16.95
expansion tank to throttle body PCH000420 - RN 16.43 - AB 14.95
radiator top PCH000460 - RN 55.13 - AB 59.95
radiator bottom PCH119020 - RN 15.09 - AB 13.95
thermostat to water pump PEH000080 - RN 72.16 - AB 74.95
manifold to throttle body PEH101540 - RN 12.98 - AB 13.95
heater in/out PCH500040 - RN 19.42 - AB 19.95

No big differences for coolant hose prices between Atlantic British and RoversNorth.

HEAD GASKET SET

AB - head gasket composite V8 Bosch motors - 169.95
looks like a complete set plus ERR6434, ERR6621, ERR6622, ERR6623, ERR7202, MGM000010KG

RN - head gasket set V8 - 213.66
no pic or info, zip, niente.

CYLINDER HEAD BOLT KIT

RN - genuine 95.00 - proline 39.00
AB - 79.95

VALVE COVER GASKET & BOLT

I think gaskets are included in both RoversNorth and Atlantic British, but not
sure about screws so here it goes:
RN - no kit, bolts are 4.59 and 2.95
AB - valve cover gasket kit new style rubber is 29.95
including bolts, bolts alone are 1.95 (ERR7370 and ERR7371)

WATER PUMP - STC4378

AB - generic 99.95 - oem 159.95 (gasket included)
RN - proline 89.50 - genuine 289.00 (gasket included)

WATER PUMP BOLT KIT

AB - 9.95
RN - n/d

FRONT COVER GASKET - ERR7280

AB - 8.95
RN - genuine - 10.90

TIMING CHAIN KIT

AB - 109.95 - water pump gasket, front cover gasket and oil pan gasket included
RN - no kit, just the chain - 40.69

EXHAUST MANIFOLD BOLT (just in case of snapping)

AB - genuine - ERR6734 - 2.95
RN - genuine - 2.19

IGNITION WIRE SET

RN - genuine 187.95 - proline 43.50 (huge price difference)
AB - magnecor performance 7mm - 139.95

SPARK PLUGS

RN - dbl platinum - 13.65 each
AB - double platinum Bosch - 9.95 each
shoot me an email at will tillery at roverguy dot com with your final list and I will save you some money.
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  #15  
Old February 1st, 2011, 08:22 PM
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Not to hijack the thread...but I think I may in for the same head gasket on a 300 TDI. Input/advice along the same lines?

Julien, you mentioned above you're pretty much a diesel guy...ever done the head gasket on a TDI?
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  #16  
Old February 1st, 2011, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Julien, you mentioned above you're pretty much a diesel guy...ever done the head gasket on a TDI?
Not on my own, i've participated in engine rebuilds, both gasoline and diesel but never took on such a work just by myself. My worry is the time it's going to take, i'm slow and obsessive .

------ Follow up post added February 1st, 2011 10:29 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by willtillery View Post
shoot me an email at will tillery at roverguy dot com with your final list and I will save you some money.
email sent, thanks.
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  #17  
Old February 3rd, 2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfd View Post
parts list and some prices, feel free to chime in:


Hoses (7 in total):

Expansion tank to radiator pch000360 - rn 16.17 - ab 16.95 wt 14.00
expansion tank to throttle body pch000420 - rn 16.43 - ab 14.95 wt 13.00
radiator top pch000460 - rn 55.13 - ab 59.95 wt 52.80
radiator bottom pch119020 - rn 15.09 - ab 13.95 wt 7.80
thermostat to water pump peh000080 - rn 72.16 - ab 74.95 wt 42.00
manifold to throttle body peh101540 - rn 12.98 - ab 13.95 wt 12.00
heater in/out pch500040 - rn 19.42 - ab 19.95 wt 18.55

no big differences for coolant hose prices between atlantic british and roversnorth.

Head gasket set

wt 182.00 with bolts

ab - head gasket composite v8 bosch motors - 169.95
looks like a complete set plus err6434, err6621, err6622, err6623, err7202, mgm000010kg

rn - head gasket set v8 - 213.66
no pic or info, zip, niente.

Cylinder head bolt kit

rn - genuine 95.00 - proline 39.00
ab - 79.95

valve cover gasket & bolt
included with wt hg k it
i think gaskets are included in both roversnorth and atlantic british, but not
sure about screws so here it goes:
Rn - no kit, bolts are 4.59 and 2.95
ab - valve cover gasket kit new style rubber is 29.95
including bolts, bolts alone are 1.95 (err7370 and err7371)

water pump - stc4378
wt gen 85.00 oem 145 gasket inc
ab - generic 99.95 - oem 159.95 (gasket included)
rn - proline 89.50 - genuine 289.00 (gasket included)

water pump bolt kit

ab - 9.95
rn - n/d
wt 7.50

front cover gasket - err7280

ab - 8.95
rn - genuine - 10.90
wt gen 8.80
timing chain kit

ab - 109.95 - water pump gasket, front cover gasket and oil pan gasket included
rn - no kit, just the chain - 40.69
wt complete kit 74.00

exhaust manifold bolt (just in case of snapping)
wt 1.00 each
ab - genuine - err6734 - 2.95
rn - genuine - 2.19

ignition wire set

wt sti 45.00
rn - genuine 187.95 - proline 43.50 (huge price difference)
ab - magnecor performance 7mm - 139.95

spark plugs

wt dble plat bosch 7.40 each
rn - dbl platinum - 13.65 each
ab - double platinum bosch - 9.95 each



including prices above
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  #18  
Old February 3rd, 2011, 10:47 AM
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Thanks for the additions to Julien's post, Will. I've been watching, and will soon be rebuilding the 4.6 I bought to eventually put in my '94. I'll need most of the stuff that he's been seeking.

I plan to use a non-serp front cover/oil pump and distributor and accessories from my 3.9, and intend to pretty much swap any and all I can off the car prior to pulling my now ok-running 3.9.

I'll be in touch with you as well in the next few days. (You too, Jake, for advice, in case you're lurking. )

Murph
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  #19  
Old February 3rd, 2011, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeloBubba View Post
Thanks for the additions to Julien's post, Will. I've been watching, and will soon be rebuilding the 4.6 I bought to eventually put in my '94. I'll need most of the stuff that he's been seeking.

I plan to use a non-serp front cover/oil pump and distributor and accessories from my 3.9, and intend to pretty much swap any and all I can off the car prior to pulling my now ok-running 3.9.

I'll be in touch with you as well in the next few days. (You too, Jake, for advice, in case you're lurking. )

Murph
Chris, don't forget to put a diz camshaft in the 4.6.
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Old February 3rd, 2011, 02:50 PM
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Thanks, Bill!

Yep, I noticed a few of your old posts while I was considering the 4.6 project, and planned to send you an email for any last minute recommendations before I dug into it.

I'm also interested in eventually setting up an MS-II or MS-III kit for fuel control, and saw that you and a few others had made inroads for our D90s. Initially, I'd thought about trying the EDIS route with it, too, but I have a Mallory diz in a box for it already, I used a Mallory with success in my original hybrid carbed truck about six years ago, and reading a bunch of Neil's recent Mallory posts, it has me interested in finally getting aound to using it with this project.

Murph
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