Getting Lockers, need info on gears - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 30th, 2006, 09:31 AM
btate
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Getting Lockers, need info on gears

I am running 33's with the 2" lift OME susp on a stock motor in a 94 defender softy with R-380 tranny.
In the next few weeks I will be removing the axles for the OME and new Bushing install, seems like a great time to go ahead and put in ARB lockers. That brings up the issue of gears. (and I guess axles)
Would someone be kind enough to explain the +/- of regearing to 4.11's?
I have done every search on lockers/shafts/gears, but I am not exactly sure how regearing would affect my performance on and off road.
So, On the road...it would have more pep off the line? I guess you would reach a shift point faster? and it would reduce top end speed? better hill climbing capacity? (I plan to switch out speedo anyway)
Off road....more torque, probably better in the sand?
do they affect driveline stress? (do you break axles C/V's easier??)

Am I even close here?
It is a slippery slope as one upgrade seems to cause you to need two more upgrades. I am trying to find the happy medium here.

Thanks in advance

Also
I am debating on trutrac/detroit or ARB. I live at the beach in NC, but we hit the mud frequently, sand some, rocks very little
I had the truetrac/detroit in my 300tdi 110, I found the detroit would pop/jerk very loud in the parking lot turns. It seemed to work fine, but I think in a shorter wheelbase truck the popping could be worse. That would lean me towards truetrac front and rear. From what I recall the trutracs are partially locked when they engage, thus reducing the axles stress some?? But, I have seen axles still break with them in the front.
Some of the ARB users seem to believe that being able to disengage the lockers in certain situations is a benefit. So that leans me toward the ARB front and rear. With cautious driving are heavy duty axles needed?

So, that puts my Christmas wish list to
ARB front/rear
Heavy duty axles C/V's
4.11 gears
or
Truetrac front and rear and maybe 4.11's

Trying to think this out in advance to avoid regearing later or regrets
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  #2  
Old April 30th, 2006, 10:51 AM
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Altitude is one additional thing to consider. Here in CO, going with the 4.11's made some of the highway driving in the mountains a bit nicer, especially when pulling my offroad trailer. If I were on more level ground or at lower altitude, I'm not sure I would be as happy with the tradeoff. Highway speeds are definitely impacted, although I'm on 31" rubber not 33".

On 31" tires, I've found that the lower gearing actually puts the engine rev's more in the sweet spot for most of what I do. I actually wouldn't mind being a bit lower yet, although the highway performance then wouldn't be acceptable for me.

As you get feedback, take into account where the folks are & the altitude they drive. I loved my old Mercedes G series in Seattle, but in CO it behaved quite differently.
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Old April 30th, 2006, 11:13 AM
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Good point, I am at Sea Level. Pretty much level ground.
3rd vehicle and I don't need to drive more than on hour to the trails, except for the occasional rally.
Thanks
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Old April 30th, 2006, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btate
So, that puts my Christmas wish list to
ARB front/rear
Heavy duty axles C/V's
4.11 gears
Yeah, do that. When money is almost no object, do that. If money is no object at all, look at the yoda front stuff Keith (rovertracks) does and the rear salsbury conversion.

On the gear front, I like my stock gears for the road a lot and don't want to be at the higher rpm range that 4.11's would take me. Also, the stock gears are stronger. I would like lower on trail gearing, but not at the expense of daily driving. I am looking at crawler gear box or something for the trail. If I was running taller tires than 33's, I might consider new gears, probably 4.11
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Old April 30th, 2006, 11:37 AM
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4.11 with 35" tires puts the truck back to a stock gearing feel just to let you know. I run them with 35's and a 1.4 t-case and can do 75mph with my little Tdi no problem. With the 33's, you would prob be a little closer to a stock gear. I would go with ARB's. when they are off for street use, they are off and when they are on, they are on.
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Old April 30th, 2006, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
when they are off for street use, they are off and when they are on, they are on
Deep, very deep!
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  #7  
Old April 30th, 2006, 01:16 PM
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If you don't go to 4.11's (with 33"s) your rig will feel gutless and slow and you will lose your ability to climb, tow, or have eny low end grunt work. I like Detroit's in the back trutrack fronts (but thats personal preference)
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Old April 30th, 2006, 01:46 PM
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I would go with 3.9 gear & arbs. if you can't afford the axles no biggie just don't pound on it. you will be fine. the 3.9 gear ratio will be a great combo esp if you drive the street quite a bit.



as far as the toy convert if you aren't breaking stuff now!! whats the point?
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Old April 30th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis
Yeah, do that. When money is almost no object, do that. If money is no object at all, look at the yoda front stuff Keith (rovertracks) does and the rear salsbury conversion.

On the gear front, I like my stock gears for the road a lot and don't want to be at the higher rpm range that 4.11's would take me. Also, the stock gears are stronger. I would like lower on trail gearing, but not at the expense of daily driving. I am looking at crawler gear box or something for the trail. If I was running taller tires than 33's, I might consider new gears, probably 4.11
I would be really interested in the exact money comparison between Kieth's option and the standard option. Maybe Kieth can jump in and do that because I think it would be interesting. Lets say:

ARB rover=$
R+P rover+$
Jack Mac or whatever=$
GBR or whatever CV+$
Labor=$
Total=$

Repeat for Rear

Then RT Toyota ARB=$
Toyota R+P=$
RT Axles=$
RT BobbyL CV=$
Labor=$
Total=$

Repeat for Rear

This would be interesting to me, maybe for other people also. If the two prices are even remotely close, the Toy option is at least twice as strong, seems like a no brainer.
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Old April 30th, 2006, 02:35 PM
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I believe Keith is preparing to leave for the OBC
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  #11  
Old April 30th, 2006, 03:05 PM
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How do 4.11 with 33's feel around town and on the highway?
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Old April 30th, 2006, 09:13 PM
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Thank you online gear calculator . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by btate
How do 4.11 with 33's feel around town and on the highway?
Not speaking from personal experience here, but just by the numbers:

At 70 MPH in 5th gear, your truck, with 33's and 3.54 diff gearing, is doing somewhere around 2741 RPM. A stock truck is running 154 RPM more. A truck with 33's AND 4.11s is running 442 RPM more.

Put another way, compared to a stock truck, your engine runs about 118 RPM less on the highway. If you put the 4.11's in, you will raise your RPMs by 324 over the stock truck.

So the question you might ask yourself is: is this motor's sweet spot 442 RPMs higher than where it is now? Because if you put 4.11s in, that is how much faster your motor will be revving on the freeway.

A handy chart - comparing engine RPM, tire size, and diff gearing at 35 and 70 MPH:
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Old April 30th, 2006, 09:22 PM
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I am turning almost 2300 with 32" and 3:54's

Follow-up Post:

is there anything between 3:70 or 3:90 availible fo rthe defender?
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Old April 30th, 2006, 09:33 PM
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look at the bottom of the chart; 1;4 tc
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Old May 1st, 2006, 12:42 AM
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T box gears ? Cam?

Anyone think about motor mods? Or different gearing in the t-box? Use the 110 gearing in the t Box. If you don't like that, then try putting an RV cam in it. I have plently of power, and if your not careful you will brake shit. (axles are the fuse). You really should not need to change the gearing if you are going from stock to 2 inchs bigger. The t Box gearing is, in my opinion are the best way to go. The gears are stronger in the box and you dont make the gears in the axle weaker. But the factory axles are fuses if you leave your foot in it. I love my gears and cam, but it snaps axles like they are butter! Need to upgrade to toyota, as sad as that sounds, but they are bigger and stonger even in the 4 cylinders. Or get to know the junk guy for used axles.

-Scott
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Old May 1st, 2006, 12:16 PM
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Aren't the T box gears the same in low range?
Isn't it 1.4 and 1.6 in high range only??
Where regearing does high and low gears?

But, I guess you are saying beef the power going in and the gears want matter...
Thanks for all comments
Waiting to pick Bill's brain at GBR
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  #17  
Old May 1st, 2006, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris V
If you don't go to 4.11's (with 33"s) your rig will feel gutless and slow and you will lose your ability to climb, tow, or have eny low end grunt work.
Yup. I put 285s (about 33") tires on with stock gears. Hitting any grade I would have to downshift. Typically I found it best to drive slower in 4th or try really hard to drive faster in 5th to keep over 2500 rpm where there was some power.

After switching to 4.11 gears I typically drive (I think its 65 - speedo is currently broken, was not correct before that) at 2700rpm. A bit on the slower side unless willing to drive over 3000, but there is power when I hit a hill. But this is not my daily driver, so I dont have to do 80 everyday in it.

Tcase is stock at 1.2:1 in Hi and 3.3xx in Lo. Trail gears are good for me. I can drive the rough stuff in 1 lo without bouncing all over the place. Crawl ratio is ~45:1 which is pretty good for what I do with 33"s.
HTH
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Old May 1st, 2006, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btate
Aren't the T box gears the same in low range?
Isn't it 1.4 and 1.6 in high range only??
Where regearing does high and low gears?

But, I guess you are saying beef the power going in and the gears want matter...
Thanks for all comments
Waiting to pick Bill's brain at GBR

Yes,

It will only help in high. Trouble is that the 4.11 gears are weaker than the stockers, and the 4.77 are weaker still. With 33's I would recommend not doing anything. Just wheel a while with what you have and then you can figure out if you want to pull things apart. Remember, 33's are a gateway tire, you will end up with 35's, its just a matter of time.
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Old May 2nd, 2006, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Yes,

It will only help in high. Trouble is that the 4.11 gears are weaker than the stockers, and the 4.77 are weaker still. With 33's I would recommend not doing anything. Just wheel a while with what you have and then you can figure out if you want to pull things apart. Remember, 33's are a gateway tire, you will end up with 35's, its just a matter of time.
I agree with the "try what you got 1st".
But moving up to 33's was easy. Just change the springs and slap the tires on. To go to 35s I need to start looking at more lift, driveline issues that come out of it, upgrading my axles due to increased stress, etc. etc. etc.. This quickly becomes a huge can o' worms. And the R&P becomes a weaker point with uprated axles. (right?)
Much easier to stick with the 33's for now and take the above advice - try what you got first
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Old May 2nd, 2006, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Remember, 33's are a gateway tire, you will end up with 35's, its just a matter of time.

Bastard. It is not your fault, though, just the truth. No matter how I justify my 33's after 3 years, I still crave 35's. 5 minutes ago I was cool with my 33's, then.......JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE OUT, THEY PULL YOU BACK IN!!!!!!!!!!



But I still think that if I go to 35's, then it will be 37's...where would it end? I think I should just keep my 33's and stick with playing with my dogs instead of my truck...

BULLCRAP! i WANT MY 35'S....AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!BASTARDB ASTARDBASTARD
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