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  #41  
Old May 7th, 2006, 01:05 PM
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I apologize when I am wrong, something you apparently haven't mastered quite yet.

Just like I thought, you can't prove a thing I said wrong. You haven't even tried. Instead you jump from insult to insult. Go back and read your posts and you'll see a few spelling errors of your own but who cares, oh yeah, you.

For some reason, you choose to get all butt-hurt when I had a different opinion than you. I back mine up, even told you how to do it, you acted like an ass.

Once and for all, I consider peeling out about 2 seconds of tire slip. No, I don't go participate in smoke shows. But yes, it peels out, better than some rear wheel drive rigs. Once again, it's pathetic that this is your main issue here.

And yes, having a very good rollcage is a really stupid thing and will actually lead to the frame bending It is so obvious that you don't have even the slightest clue about this subject. Please keep talking about it.....

I stand by everything that I have said on here. If you want to see me flop it, or want to back up anything I say, you are more than welcome to come out here and run the Hammers with me. And no, it is not a callout of any kind. You don't have to bring your truck, but I have a feeling that you are going to doubt me untill you actually see it. I would take my rig out to OK, but I don't know what driving through a corn field will prove to anybody.

Are we done or do you want to make more of a fool out of yourself talking about rollcages?
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #42  
Old May 7th, 2006, 01:15 PM
Chris V

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I think what everyone should keep in mind is what the owner wants to accomplish with his (or her) rig and where they want to wheel. By telling some one who has a stock Defender they use as a daily driver and want to use as a weekend trail rig on moderate trails that the way to go is 36", 37" or 40" tires, you have to lift the rig, swap the diffs,gears, axles ,drive shafts and engine is a little crazy. I've driven all over the country from New England to TN and as far as UT and back from wheeling in my Defender. That's right 35 hours out to Moab and 35 hours back (after a week of wheeling hells revenge, metal masher, Moab rim, poison spider, etc , etc.) That's over 4,400 miles round trip, on 35" Mud terrains and a soft top Defender. The beautiful part of the Defender is it can be an all around great rig on road and off for an owner who has one single daily driver, so why destroy it , because the next step can get you bigger tires than any one else? Granted in Canada and New England where deep mud and deep snow I would take my 35" MT's over 33". But I (personally)would not put 40" tires on a 93" wheel base rig and expect it not to lose it's Turing radius and it's ability to weave nibley through tight forests. In England (and some US spots) owners show their ability and knowledge of their rigs by trialing through courses, soft slippery off camber through gates, stopping or reversing or hitting gates (or missing them completely goes against your score) The lesson behind these events is knowing your rig on what it will typical encounter 95% of the time.{ Trying doing these with monster built rigs} (granted it will not teach you cr@p about rock climbing through upper helderado, but do you build a rig to do the most extreme trails when in reality you may only do them 2 or 3 times in the life of your rig?) Are you better off creating a dedicated wheeling rig that you feel no pain in taking the paint off and crumpling body panels or rolling? Are you better off starting with an old FJ or J##p or from scratch with a full perimeter frame Tomcat or Rock buggy that you can get dirt cheep and creating it is half the fun to dedicate to the trailer and the trail? These are all questions any one modifying their Defender should think about. There are what around 7,000 NAS Defenders in this country now that are all 9 years old or older most of which can get close to or above their original selling price (if you ever wanted to resell them) unless of course you have butchered it to the point where a Land Rover enthusiast sees it as a home built mutt . Can you have the best of both worlds? Sure, there are enough properly built aftermarket Land Rover parts to make a Defender tough and dependable on and off road and safe in both. You as an owner have to decide how far you want to push it, and what you are going to end up with when your done.
And sometimes it pays to see what guys who wheel for a living in Defenders like Bill Burke, or Mat from Rock Ware do to their rigs . Sometimes all the money and mods in the world you can throw on a rig don't make it any more capable than the driver.
This is just my point of view if you are insulted or offended or disagree with it I'm sorry in advance
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  #43  
Old May 7th, 2006, 02:58 PM
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Very well said, Chris.
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  #44  
Old May 7th, 2006, 03:25 PM
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Guys, don't think anyone in this tread ever told anyone they needed 36in tires or more. It got off on a tangent when I said a rig on 35's can work great on the street.
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  #45  
Old May 7th, 2006, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
I don't think so. There are many rigs that make mine look like a joke. I think I am middle of the road. When I was running the nimesis trail in N.M. I was by far the smallest, least capeable truck there. There was only one other truck on 37's in the whole group, and he had portals! This is why I am always so surprised by some of the attitudes here. Maybe it's just because I don't take the time to be nice when I type things that gets people all butt-hurt. I'm meaner on the internet!

Did you get my answer on the toy center swap? I think that can get the gears you want.
Maybe Phil was refering to your "short" career in Hard-Core Porn? Hehehehe.

DJ
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  #46  
Old May 7th, 2006, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DJ Menasco
Maybe Phil was refering to your "short" career in Hard-Core Porn? Hehehehe.

DJ
Oh, well thats entirely possible.
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  #47  
Old May 7th, 2006, 09:28 PM
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Buckon, I'm gonna try once more to sort some things out for myself.

I wanted a softer more flexable suspension so I went to longer softer springs (and the other things that go with that). I wanted tires with more rubber between the rim and rocks and to step over obstacles a little easier so I went to 35's. When I did this the on street handling was not as positive as before.

Now are you telling me that I set it up wrong.

You said that now you trailer your rig because it is not street legal because of the tires I think. It sounds to me like that makes it less of a street/ trail rig. Sort of like you compromised one thing for the other.

I don't really care how you spell but I think you said I should learn to read and I have seen you tell others to learn to read and spell.

I don't care what trails you run nor how much horsepower you have nor even what your rig looks like. It's your money spend it how you like. Just don't think we are stupid because we don't do to our trucks what you have done to yours. I just have a problem respecting people who have no respect for others. Maybe it's a generational thing but I just don't get all the BS you put out. For instance when a well known Rover mechanic, who knows a hell of a lot more than you or I, comes on the site offering to help us and you insult him.

Thinking that all of Ok is corn fields is sort of like us thinking San Diego is all queer, maybe some truth to both notions but not entirely true.


Thanks Chris V. for getting things back on track.
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  #48  
Old May 8th, 2006, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffer
Buckon, I'm gonna try once more to sort some things out for myself.

I wanted a softer more flexable suspension so I went to longer softer springs (and the other things that go with that). I wanted tires with more rubber between the rim and rocks and to step over obstacles a little easier so I went to 35's. When I did this the on street handling was not as positive as before.

Now are you telling me that I set it up wrong.

You said that now you trailer your rig because it is not street legal because of the tires I think. It sounds to me like that makes it less of a street/ trail rig. Sort of like you compromised one thing for the other.

I don't really care how you spell but I think you said I should learn to read and I have seen you tell others to learn to read and spell.

I don't care what trails you run nor how much horsepower you have nor even what your rig looks like. It's your money spend it how you like. Just don't think we are stupid because we don't do to our trucks what you have done to yours. I just have a problem respecting people who have no respect for others. Maybe it's a generational thing but I just don't get all the BS you put out. For instance when a well known Rover mechanic, who knows a hell of a lot more than you or I, comes on the site offering to help us and you insult him.

Thinking that all of Ok is corn fields is sort of like us thinking San Diego is all queer, maybe some truth to both notions but not entirely true.


Thanks Chris V. for getting things back on track.
Now were finally getting somewhere. All you had to do is stop acting all butt-hurt. Like I said, you can have a truck that acts fine on 35's. If you fab up a sway bar and adjust your shocks you can counter having a softer suspension. It's very simple to fab up an anti-rock system or something similar. Recently, I posted how you can adjust the shocks (some of them) to make the ride stiff again but still plyable offroad. Yes, you can fix the steering and drive shaft vibration too. As to tire flex, like I said earlier, you will not really notice any difference if you fill them up to 30-35 psi. You really can't tell on the road. I promise you, my rig on 37's was better on the road than my rig on 31's. See, you got all defensive and pissy because you thought that I was personally dissing you because you did not set up your rig right. Thats not it at all. Right is whatever the owner wants out of it. You wanted better offroad, but didn't take care of the things you needed to to keep it good on the road. That does not mean it can't be done.

Maybe I can explain it this way. I wanted a better crawl ratio. I did not want to spend the $$ on a crawler box, something like 3 grand last time I checked. I went and put in 6.20 gears. Yes, this mod made me more capeable offroad and less capeable on road. Does that mean that there is no way to have a good crawl ratio and a streetable rig? No way. I could have done it right, bought the 4 to 1 and had the best of both worlds. I chose not to. You can make your rig handle perfectly on the street on 35's if you want to. So lets go back to the start of all of this, once again, you can have a rig handle perfectly on the street and do great offroad on 35's, you just have to do it right. You challenged me and were wrong, so I got uppity.

Lets clear the rest of our disagreement up. My truck is no longer street legal because of the wheelbase and the top end (and a whole lot of other things I did). The tires stick out 4in behind the rear end. The tires themselves have nothing to do with it. I outgrew what I had and wanted to be able to run some trails that I just couldn't before. But just so you know, it handles on the street great. I spent a lot of time making sure the upper tie rod and track bar were at a perfect angle, good shock geometry, ect. I have never to my knowledge advocated this type of crazy for anyone else. In a matter of fact, I spent most of today completely tearing down my front end to get to the pinion seals. Then I fixed them, put it all together and they still leaked. Then I tore them down again. Anyone who knows what this takes, it's a lot of crap to take apart. My point is, when you design something yourself, you have to deal with it when it goes to hell. I made a stupid error when I did this and it has cost me a lot of time. I don't think that a lot of people want to go through this. Sometimes its just way better to wheel your 33's then wrench your whatever. I am cool with that. I do NOT think that you are stupid for not wanting to do to your rig what I have done to mine. I think you are stupid for entirely different reasons.

None of this changes the fact that I am going to call somebody when they do something wrong. I wish to hell somebody could have told me I was an idiot when I built my rear links out of .25 wall DOM. It would have saved me a lot of time and major money. I agree with you on the insulting thing. I believe you are referring to when I told the guy with the portals that his shock mounts suck. If I am not wrong, I even apologized, and then you gave me crap for it! Here's the thing, I should have been nicer, but the shock mounts sucked. How do I know? I mounted mine that way, and they failed because they sucked. I don't spout BS, I tell people things that I know from experience, except when I am joking, then I joke.

Here's where I am coming from, I don't care if you don't respect me. You haven't given me any reason to respect you, so I don't. It's not a generational thing, its you attacking me for what you (wrongly) thought was BS. I stand by everything that I said.

I hope that you will not get all butt-hurt by any of this. I have fun on this sight and enjoy getting a rise out of people like you. I could sugar coat everything, but what is the fun in that. You obviosly have a big problem with me, thats cool. You can take my advise or discard it. I don't care. You can even try to insult me instead of just trying to prove me wrong. I will just insult you back, and then we get nowhere.

Oh, one last thing, if you try to diss San Diego at least don't get it confused with LA or SF. San Diego is a fairly conservative city as far as left coast city's go. If you wanted to diss it, say it is filled with millions of Illegal Immigrants. Then you would be getting somewhere. Of course, I stand by my comment that OK is all corn fields. HAHA more BS huh?
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #49  
Old May 8th, 2006, 07:49 PM
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Thanks, got it sorted out now, I've been trying to reason with the "Village Idiot"
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  #50  
Old May 8th, 2006, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by snuffer
Thanks, got it sorted out now, I've been trying to reason with the "Village Idiot"
Yep, I thought thats what you would come back with. A pathetic attempt at an insult. You bore me.
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  #51  
Old May 9th, 2006, 10:52 AM
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Holy Crap!
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  #52  
Old May 9th, 2006, 11:14 PM
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Ok in fairness to Buckon and per his request to " try to prove me wronge"

I had time to do the research today. Just type in 'tire sidewall flexibility" in Google. There is some pretty good info that tells you what your common sense already tells you.

"The higher the tires aspect ratio, the more flexible the sidewall will be." The best I remember the NAS D 90 came out with 265/75/16's, they already figured out the aspect ratio of 75 for you.

A Goodyear 37/12.5/15 has an aspect ratio of 88. Goodyear is pretty secretive about their technical info but Goodrich is very accessible. Try their toll free 877 # to talk to the engineering people. According to them it would be impossible to pressurize a tire enough to overcome the difference in sidewall flexibility between an aspect ratio of 75 and 88.

So no matter what spring rate you had you would still have the poorer steering response just from the sidewall flex. Besides who uses a stiffer spring for a trail rig because a spring that is stiffer as it compersses also resists stretching as it drops past neutral.

Buckon, if you need help checking my math on the aspect ratio of the 37/12.5 tire let me know.

Soooo, if you insist on the "mine rode like a car on 37's" I think is how you put it, you retain the "Village Idiot" title. If you can admit your "wronge", as you like to spell it, there may actually be hope for you. And yes I'll give you the fact that braking can be better than stock if you want to add a Ford 1 ton front end under your Rover. That is if you ignore the fact that your Defender is sitting much higher than stock which will surely affect braking in a turn.

Sorry if a good thread was trashed but sometimes the facts matter.
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  #53  
Old May 9th, 2006, 11:39 PM
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Actually, this was a pretty good thread. Unlike those "Menasco" threads mind you.
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  #54  
Old May 9th, 2006, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffer
Ok in fairness to Buckon and per his request to " try to prove me wronge"

I had time to do the research today. Just type in 'tire sidewall flexibility" in Google. There is some pretty good info that tells you what your common sense already tells you.

"The higher the tires aspect ratio, the more flexible the sidewall will be." The best I remember the NAS D 90 came out with 265/75/16's, they already figured out the aspect ratio of 75 for you.

A Goodyear 37/12.5/15 has an aspect ratio of 88. Goodyear is pretty secretive about their technical info but Goodrich is very accessible. Try their toll free 877 # to talk to the engineering people. According to them it would be impossible to pressurize a tire enough to overcome the difference in sidewall flexibility between an aspect ratio of 75 and 88.

So no matter what spring rate you had you would still have the poorer steering response just from the sidewall flex. Besides who uses a stiffer spring for a trail rig because a spring that is stiffer as it compersses also resists stretching as it drops past neutral.

Buckon, if you need help checking my math on the aspect ratio of the 37/12.5 tire let me know.

Soooo, if you insist on the "mine rode like a car on 37's" I think is how you put it, you retain the "Village Idiot" title. If you can admit your "wronge", as you like to spell it, there may actually be hope for you. And yes I'll give you the fact that braking can be better than stock if you want to add a Ford 1 ton front end under your Rover. That is if you ignore the fact that your Defender is sitting much higher than stock which will surely affect braking in a turn.

Sorry if a good thread was trashed but sometimes the facts matter.
Oh my lord, you are such a tool. You called up Goodrich!!! Much time on your hands? You really have no idea how to read do you?

Posted by me:

"As to tire flex, like I said earlier, you will not really notice any difference if you fill them up to 30-35 psi. You really can't tell on the road."

Dee-da-dee... I never said that there is no difference in the sidewall flex, I said you would never be able to feel it! SMACK! Once again, it's not a big enough difference to really matter in the real world. IE driving on a road, like on the way to work for example. You would feel it if you were racing the 500, but I don't recommend a Defender for that. (for snuffer, that was a joke)

And guess what? I used coilovers with dual spring rate and a short stack on top. Meaning after it stuffed about 1.5in the second spring rate came into play which was stiffer than stock. Thats right, it cornered great! and gave me 10in of straight droop. You remember, you just have to do it right?

Once again, my truck rode like a car. You are not going to convince anyone ever that it is impossible to make a truck on 35's drive well. People do it everyday. So if you want to come back and argue more, go right ahead but do us all a favor, read my posts, then read them again out loud, then respond.
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #55  
Old May 10th, 2006, 08:14 AM
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So I take it Village Idiot didn't read ANY of the info that I offered. Village Idiot prefers talking out his ass.

Go ahead VI the rest of this thread is your's.
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  #56  
Old May 10th, 2006, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffer
So I take it Village Idiot didn't read ANY of the info that I offered. Village Idiot prefers talking out his ass.

Go ahead VI the rest of this thread is your's.
Yeah okay,

I answered every point you tried so hard to make instead of cherry picking like you. Face it, you were smacked and you go back to name calling and giving up. Nothing, if not consistent and pathetic.

But, I am not a boastful winner. If you send your truck to me and your CC, I will be happy to fix it for you! That way you can stop whining like a little bitch: My truck doesn't drive well on the street!
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  #57  
Old May 10th, 2006, 11:45 AM
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When my brother and I would get in fights my mom would turn the garden hose on us. . .
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  #58  
Old May 11th, 2006, 10:28 AM
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When my brother and I would get in fights my mom would turn the garden hose on us. . .

Thanks for the laugh, it was about time for one.

You reminded me of the time my two daughters had to share a bathroom when they were 10 & 13. Only they didn't talk naughty.
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  #59  
Old May 14th, 2006, 09:01 PM
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WTF am I supposed to do with this thread? Is it really so much to ask people to have rational tech conversations in the tech section without slinging crap?
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Originally Posted by Lriwater: As you know, most wives don't like Series trucks due to the ride and lack of creature comforts. Girlfriends seem to like those, but some sort of magic happens during the wedding ceremony.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 11:29 AM
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snuffer
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Randy Black
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tulsa Ok USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisvonc
WTF am I supposed to do with this thread? Is it really so much to ask people to have rational tech conversations in the tech section without slinging crap?

You are right and I apologize to everyone on the forum.
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