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  #21  
Old May 2nd, 2006, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis
Bastard. It is not your fault, though, just the truth. No matter how I justify my 33's after 3 years, I still crave 35's. 5 minutes ago I was cool with my 33's, then.......JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE OUT, THEY PULL YOU BACK IN!!!!!!!!!!



But I still think that if I go to 35's, then it will be 37's...where would it end? I think I should just keep my 33's and stick with playing with my dogs instead of my truck...

BULLCRAP! i WANT MY 35'S....AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!BASTARDB ASTARDBASTARD
Ahh, I feel your pain my poor brother! I have felt the force pull on me for many a year. To answer your question, you'll always want bigger untill you hit 39.5s Of course, people feel the force of 33's differently!
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  #22  
Old May 5th, 2006, 10:04 PM
Chris V

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I had 35" (and 36" for that matter) for years they were the worst thing I ever did to the rig (for on road handling), most guys that know their rigs and what they are capable of can wheel almost anywhere with 33" on their Defenders. (Take Matt from Rockware for instance, watch him in Moab) Granted my rig looked sick but the ride on road was terrible. As for the strength of 4.11 , I have broke nearly everything on my rig (once or sometimes twice) but never broke or have heard of anyone breaking Ashcroft 4.11's (hell I broke Ashcroft HD axles, Detroit lockers and the R&P's always survived) Put 4.11's and 33" tires on your rig and you feel like you have a 4.6 (instead of a 3.9 or 4.0) And the Defender was never made to travel over 70mph safely so do everyone a favor and stay just under the speed limit or at it and keep everyone alive in the flying brick. Of course I would probable end up with 35" if I were to do it all over again... it's an image thing , sometimes you cant get over it.
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  #23  
Old May 5th, 2006, 10:35 PM
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I am running 4.11's and ARB's front and rear, and I started out on 33's... the truck has a lot of pep. I is not my daily driver, so I really do not care about the extra miles or gas consumption. And for the trail, I run a set of 35's on MRT Beadlocks.



Personally, I would go with the ARB's, they are more money, but they give you the option of attacking an obstacle with skill alone, and if that fails, then you can always lock-it-up... It makes wheeling more fun and challenging. I look at like it's the best of both worlds.



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  #24  
Old May 6th, 2006, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris V
I had 35" (and 36" for that matter) for years they were the worst thing I ever did to the rig (for on road handling), most guys that know their rigs and what they are capable of can wheel almost anywhere with 33" on their Defenders. (Take Matt from Rockware for instance, watch him in Moab) Granted my rig looked sick but the ride on road was terrible. As for the strength of 4.11 , I have broke nearly everything on my rig (once or sometimes twice) but never broke or have heard of anyone breaking Ashcroft 4.11's (hell I broke Ashcroft HD axles, Detroit lockers and the R&P's always survived) Put 4.11's and 33" tires on your rig and you feel like you have a 4.6 (instead of a 3.9 or 4.0) And the Defender was never made to travel over 70mph safely so do everyone a favor and stay just under the speed limit or at it and keep everyone alive in the flying brick. Of course I would probable end up with 35" if I were to do it all over again... it's an image thing , sometimes you cant get over it.
Sorry, but I disagree with just about everything you have said here! No worries, opinion are just that!

Lets break it down,

1. If your rig drove like crap on 35's you had something wrong with the suspension, steering, or tires. I drove on 37's for a while and the rig handled like a car.

2. No, most people who own 33's can not go almost anywhere with thier Defenders. Even the most layed back event I go to every year only allows 33's or less on 2 out of 5 trails. In a matter of fact, people thinking thier rigs on 33's can go anywhere is just about the most annoying thing to ever happen to this sport. It clogs trails like crazy (trail tampons). Nothing like a 9 hour 3 mile trail ride because some dude has to be dragged out backwards (yes, I have been pulled out backwards too, everybody has at one point!). Take the Hammers for instance, no way on 33's.

3. People break 4.11's all the time. They are weak, expensive and did I mention weak? I could break a set of 4.11 by sneezing and accidently hitting the gas. A stock toyota 8in is way stronger.

4. My Defender could take me 80 all day with 37's and a little TDi. They can go as fast as you want. Like I said, there was something really wronge with your setup.

5. Okay, I agree with you that image matters to a lot of people.
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  #25  
Old May 6th, 2006, 06:06 AM
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youre just too hardcore.


is there anything else availible for the Defenders or 411 and 4 56 all. something like a 373 or 3 80 availible?
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  #26  
Old May 6th, 2006, 07:02 AM
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I believe KAM now sells 4 different gear sets: 4.7, 4.1, 3.9??, 2.8?? something like that..
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  #27  
Old May 6th, 2006, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Sorry, but I disagree with just about everything you have said here! No worries, opinion are just that!

Lets break it down,

1. If your rig drove like crap on 35's you had something wrong with the suspension, steering, or tires. I drove on 37's for a while and the rig handled like a car.

2. No, most people who own 33's can not go almost anywhere with thier Defenders. Even the most layed back event I go to every year only allows 33's or less on 2 out of 5 trails. In a matter of fact, people thinking thier rigs on 33's can go anywhere is just about the most annoying thing to ever happen to this sport. It clogs trails like crazy (trail tampons). Nothing like a 9 hour 3 mile trail ride because some dude has to be dragged out backwards (yes, I have been pulled out backwards too, everybody has at one point!). Take the Hammers for instance, no way on 33's.

3. People break 4.11's all the time. They are weak, expensive and did I mention weak? I could break a set of 4.11 by sneezing and accidently hitting the gas. A stock toyota 8in is way stronger.

4. My Defender could take me 80 all day with 37's and a little TDi. They can go as fast as you want. Like I said, there was something really wronge with your setup.

5. Okay, I agree with you that image matters to a lot of people.
Oh come on, think with your head. The more you do to make your rig better off road the worse it will handle on road. If you lift it it's more top heavy, it you run 35 or 37's instead of 31's there is more sidewall flex, no matter how your suspension is set up.

You can break anything if you pound on it hard enough. I've seen some of the guys on this thread make obstacles that I broke on because they drove the obstacle differently.

ARB's are the best of both worlds and are one of the exceptions to the "better offroad/worse onroad" that I said above.

In most cases the difference in 35's over 33's or 37's over 35's comes down to driver skill and ability to pick a line.


Just another opinion
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  #28  
Old May 6th, 2006, 11:01 AM
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With 3"s, 35's, 3-link etc... my truck handles great. I don't understand what you guys mean by bad on road... I can drive it 400 miles with no problem to MAR and cruise at 70 on the highway with the little Tdi also. I agree with you David..
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  #29  
Old May 6th, 2006, 11:41 AM
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When I bought my D it was bone stock. Sway bars, Goodrich AT's and everything. I was very surprise how well it handled on the street. Quick steering, good cornering, not a bad ride, all ths considering it's a high profile utility sort of vehicle.

As I have modified it for better offroad performance the onroad performance is without a doubt not what it used to be. I have noticed the biggest change in handling, not so much in the power because I have changed gearing.

I have some driveshaft vibrations that it didn't have when stock, it's not bad and I wouldn't be afraid to drive it cross country, it will just need more maintenance that it needed when stock.

Braking can't possibly be as good as it was but I can still get stopped in a fairly straight line.

I am talking about starting with a stock NAS D 90 with about 50K miles.
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  #30  
Old May 6th, 2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffer
Oh come on, think with your head. The more you do to make your rig better off road the worse it will handle on road. If you lift it it's more top heavy, it you run 35 or 37's instead of 31's there is more sidewall flex, no matter how your suspension is set up.

You can break anything if you pound on it hard enough. I've seen some of the guys on this thread make obstacles that I broke on because they drove the obstacle differently.

ARB's are the best of both worlds and are one of the exceptions to the "better offroad/worse onroad" that I said above.

In most cases the difference in 35's over 33's or 37's over 35's comes down to driver skill and ability to pick a line.


Just another opinion

I don't have to think about this one, I already did it! Like I said in my post. You guys that have these problems have something wronge with your rover. Randy is right, you set it up right, it works right. You can counter the higher center of gravity easily with the right spring rate and the right track width. The tire flex is not an issue at all. Seriously, you go to a radial 37s and keep 35 lbs in it and you will never be able to tell a difference. You would from a BMW to a Rover, yes, but not from a stock rover to a lifted one.

The problem that some of you run into is not doing things right. You can't just throw 4 springs and 4 shocks on to lift anything without improving some other things. Here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffer
When I bought my D it was bone stock. Sway bars, Goodrich AT's and everything. I was very surprise how well it handled on the street. Quick steering, good cornering, not a bad ride, all ths considering it's a high profile utility sort of vehicle.

As I have modified it for better offroad performance the onroad performance is without a doubt not what it used to be. I have noticed the biggest change in handling, not so much in the power because I have changed gearing.

I have some driveshaft vibrations that it didn't have when stock, it's not bad and I wouldn't be afraid to drive it cross country, it will just need more maintenance that it needed when stock.

Braking can't possibly be as good as it was but I can still get stopped in a fairly straight line.

I am talking about starting with a stock NAS D 90 with about 50K miles
1. Your steering can be just as nice as stock, even with 40's. The problem is if you lift it and stick 35in rubber on there you have to do someting to the steering. You can't just expect it to stay stock and keep up. You add a PA ram and pump up your flow rate out of the stock pump you will love your steering again. Once again, it just needs to be done right.

2. You need to either switch drive shafts or adjust your pinion angle. If you do it right, you will not get vibration even with 12in of lift (yes I filled my air shocks all the way up and went driving around town. And yes, it was very fun).

3. Braking. Oh hell yes it can be as good or better than stock. But once again, you have to do something to it. I converted the front to 1ton ford from an F350 and if I hit it hard at about 25mph it stops instantly. And I mean, if there is someone in the truck without a seatbelt on, they will no longer be in the truck! This is an exotic fix, but there are other methods that I have not tried but people swear by. Rovertracks has something involving RR swaps that I guess kicks butt. But, I have not tried that so I am going off of what I heard.

Heres the bottom line, when I had 37's the truck handled on the road better than a bone stock d-90. It cornered better, was more comfortable, was quicker off the line, was even mor quiet. The one thing that was noticable was on really windy roads it did seem to catch the wind worse than a stock one. Bigger target I suppose. Now I don't drive it on the road so I abondoned my high end and other things so I it sucks now. I can't go over 55-60mph max.

It all comes down it doing it right. Making sure that all things caused by the height or excess rolling mass are dealt with. This can be time consuming or expensive but is very possible and it is just plain wronge to say that if you lift your truck it will never handle well on road again.



And Rover4x4, you can do a toy R+P conversion and get just about any diff gears you want from a 3.xx to a 6.xx. You will get a stronger R+P and I believe they are not much more than a a bling GBR setup.
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  #31  
Old May 6th, 2006, 05:01 PM
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1. Your steering can be just as nice as stock, even with 40's. The problem is if you lift it and stick 35in rubber on there you have to do someting to the steering. You can't just expect it to stay stock and keep up. You add a PA ram and pump up your flow rate out of the stock pump you will love your steering again. Once again, it just needs to be done right.

2. You need to either switch drive shafts or adjust your pinion angle. If you do it right, you will not get vibration even with 12in of lift (yes I filled my air shocks all the way up and went driving around town. And yes, it was very fun).

3. Braking. Oh hell yes it can be as good or better than stock. But once again, you have to do something to it. I converted the front to 1ton ford from an F350 and if I hit it hard at about 25mph it stops instantly. And I mean, if there is someone in the truck without a seatbelt on, they will no longer be in the truck! This is an exotic fix, but there are other methods that I have not tried but people swear by. Rovertracks has something involving RR swaps that I guess kicks butt. But, I have not tried that so I am going off of what I heard.

Heres the bottom line, when I had 37's the truck handled on the road better than a bone stock d-90. It cornered better, was more comfortable, was quicker off the line, was even mor quiet. The one thing that was noticable was on really windy roads it did seem to catch the wind worse than a stock one. Bigger target I suppose. Now I don't drive it on the road so I abondoned my high end and other things so I it sucks now. I can't go over 55-60mph max.

It all comes down it doing it right. Making sure that all things caused by the height or excess rolling mass are dealt with. This can be time consuming or expensive but is very possible and it is just plain wronge to say that if you lift your truck it will never handle well on road again.


You spent all of this time and money, the truck is every bit as comfy on the street as a stock D 90 but now you don't drive it on the road?

A couple more quotes:
"I can peel out on a dry street in 1st and 2nd gears" ( Please define peel out for me)
"I can smoke all four tires" ( Define smoke)
"When somebody says something can't be done, I try harder to make myself look like an ididot" (I think I got this one)
"Looks like the Army is stealing ideas from me"
"I promise I will roll it...it's a matter of when not if...Plus it's great fun and the ladies love it" (It's going to be hard to straighten the sheet metal with all that roll cage caved in on it)
"I don't buy stickers people give them to me"

I think you're talking out your ass as usual. But hay it's just another opinion i've got
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  #32  
Old May 6th, 2006, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffer
You spent all of this time and money, the truck is every bit as comfy on the street as a stock D 90 but now you don't drive it on the road?

A couple more quotes:
"I can peel out on a dry street in 1st and 2nd gears" ( Please define peel out for me)
"I can smoke all four tires" ( Define smoke)
"When somebody says something can't be done, I try harder to make myself look like an ididot" (I think I got this one)
"Looks like the Army is stealing ideas from me"
"I promise I will roll it...it's a matter of when not if...Plus it's great fun and the ladies love it" (It's going to be hard to straighten the sheet metal with all that roll cage caved in on it)
"I don't buy stickers people give them to me"

I think you're talking out your ass as usual. But hay it's just another opinion i've got

I am sorry, but I don't think you know how to read. I said that it was comfy on the street when I had 37's. I made a lot of changes and I am no longer road legal so I trailer everywhere. But even if I didn't, how do you not understand not wanting to drive a wheeler on the road, you break it bad enough, how do you get home? When I drove out to NM for the Chili Challenge I was just about the only person there stupid enough not to trailer. Then I ripped my track bar bracket off the axle and had to find someone nice enough to weld it back on for me and then had to trust that weld all the way home (700 miles or something like that). Not doing that again. Has nothing to do with comfort, not that a D90 is that comfortable stock.

I can peel out in 1st and 2nd meaning getting the tires to peel out, do you know what that means? I have 6.20 gears, a 1.4 t-case and a tuned Tdi. What do you think happens when you rev up a motor to 4000 rpm and drop the clutch? If this amazes you, I am really sorry. Your truck would probably do it too, if you didn't break it when you tried it.

Smoke means peels out. Once again, if this is surprising to you, I'm sorry

A joke. Makes sence to me.

Another joke, a self depricating one at that.

I've already rolled the car onto its side twice within a few feet of eachother. Your an idiot if you think this cage is going to cave in on itself. It ties into the frame at 10 points. I had it built so I could roll it, and I do. Why is this even an issue to you? I end up dragging the cage just about avery time a wheel it. It's not that hard core at all, tons of vehicles that run the trails I do have all kinds or rock rash and exo cages. I guess your spouting off on a subject you know jack about.

I don't buy stickers, never have. Not once. Sorry.

How do I say this nicely. Your an idiot. Everything I typed above was accurate. Why don't we get back on topic here. You get all butt-hurt when I tell you if you made some changes, your truck would be fine on the street. Everything that I typed above about how to do that, with the steering, suspension, brakes, try to prove me wronge. All the information I typed is right on and you know it, so either prove me wronge or shut-up.

Oh, and one last thing, it's very flattering that you can remember or take the time to find quotes from years ago. I can't think of a thing else on here that you have ever said.
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  #33  
Old May 6th, 2006, 08:29 PM
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dave youre just xxxxxxx hardcore
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  #34  
Old May 6th, 2006, 08:33 PM
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dave youre just xxxxxxx hardcore

I don't think so. There are many rigs that make mine look like a joke. I think I am middle of the road. When I was running the nimesis trail in N.M. I was by far the smallest, least capeable truck there. There was only one other truck on 37's in the whole group, and he had portals! This is why I am always so surprised by some of the attitudes here. Maybe it's just because I don't take the time to be nice when I type things that gets people all butt-hurt. I'm meaner on the internet!

Did you get my answer on the toy center swap? I think that can get the gears you want.
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  #35  
Old May 6th, 2006, 08:35 PM
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Dave,
Are you taking a leak on your truck (the sig pic)?

I guess the prudent thing is to give the 33's a try with no gears.
I need to save something to do later this summer!
I guess I will wait on thegears and lockers/truetrac/detroit also....another thread for that choice.....

Thanks all for the opinions
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  #36  
Old May 6th, 2006, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btate
Dave,
Are you taking a leak on your truck (the sig pic)?

I guess the prudent thing is to give the 33's a try with no gears.
I need to save something to do later this summer!
I guess I will wait on thegears and lockers/truetrac/detroit also....another thread for that choice.....

Thanks all for the opinions
Bryan
Naw,

But my two buddies were both peeing on my truck (well actually, just the tires). I was snapping the picture while they thought I wasn't paying attention. We all have a wierd sense of humor.

I think your doing the right thing. See if you like it without spending any money. Then when you do, you'll be sure your spending it on the right things.
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  #37  
Old May 6th, 2006, 08:46 PM
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Thanks,
If I ever get the thing out of the paint shop.....they have a way of suckering you into thinking you could actually get a vehicle painted in a reasonable time period.....

I've got plenty, plenty of work to tide me over.
Of course the truck will be ready the day we have our first kid (this Thursday)
I'll be so tired from lack of sleep, I doubt I will care if the truck gets put back together or not!
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  #38  
Old May 6th, 2006, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btate
Thanks,
If I ever get the thing out of the paint shop.....they have a way of suckering you into thinking you could actually get a vehicle painted in a reasonable time period.....

I've got plenty, plenty of work to tide me over.
Of course the truck will be ready the day we have our first kid (this Thursday)
I'll be so tired from lack of sleep, I doubt I will care if the truck gets put back together or not!

Huge, huge congrats on your first kid!!!! I had my first 3 months ago. Yes, you will be low on sleep for sure. But, it gets better. I relied on my wife quite a bit. I hope your wife has an easy delivery!
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  #39  
Old May 6th, 2006, 09:08 PM
btate
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Bryan Tate
d90
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 479
Thanks,

At least I have the following week off!
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  #40  
Old May 7th, 2006, 08:28 AM
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snuffer
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Randy Black
'95 D 90 SW
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tulsa Ok USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
I am sorry, but I don't think you know how to read. I said that it was comfy on the street when I had 37's. I made a lot of changes and I am no longer road legal so I trailer everywhere. But even if I didn't, how do you not understand not wanting to drive a wheeler on the road, you break it bad enough, how do you get home? When I drove out to NM for the Chili Challenge I was just about the only person there stupid enough not to trailer. Then I ripped my track bar bracket off the axle and had to find someone nice enough to weld it back on for me and then had to trust that weld all the way home (700 miles or something like that). Not doing that again. Has nothing to do with comfort, not that a D90 is that comfortable stock.

I can peel out in 1st and 2nd meaning getting the tires to peel out, do you know what that means? I have 6.20 gears, a 1.4 t-case and a tuned Tdi. What do you think happens when you rev up a motor to 4000 rpm and drop the clutch? If this amazes you, I am really sorry. Your truck would probably do it too, if you didn't break it when you tried it.

Smoke means peels out. Once again, if this is surprising to you, I'm sorry

A joke. Makes sence to me.

Another joke, a self depricating one at that.

I've already rolled the car onto its side twice within a few feet of eachother. Your an idiot if you think this cage is going to cave in on itself. It ties into the frame at 10 points. I had it built so I could roll it, and I do. Why is this even an issue to you? I end up dragging the cage just about avery time a wheel it. It's not that hard core at all, tons of vehicles that run the trails I do have all kinds or rock rash and exo cages. I guess your spouting off on a subject you know jack about.

I don't buy stickers, never have. Not once. Sorry.

How do I say this nicely. Your an idiot. Everything I typed above was accurate. Why don't we get back on topic here. You get all butt-hurt when I tell you if you made some changes, your truck would be fine on the street. Everything that I typed above about how to do that, with the steering, suspension, brakes, try to prove me wronge. All the information I typed is right on and you know it, so either prove me wronge or shut-up.

Oh, and one last thing, it's very flattering that you can remember or take the time to find quotes from years ago. I can't think of a thing else on here that you have ever said.

Another favorite:
"Your are right. I might have come across as a dick. I am sorry"

You don't seem like the kind of guy that would apologize for being himself.

I've been trailering my truck for about 4 years. I've always gotten myself home, but more often someone else that has broken.

There's peeling out and then there's barking the tires. Do you have the two confused?

Funny, smoke and peel out doesn't mean the same to me. Maybe it's some sort of regional thing? And I'd still like to see the pictures. Do you mean with the front end parked against a concrete wall? Are you sure it's not your clutch that makes all the smoke or maybe a fan belt that make the squeal when you peel out?

Most of what you say I consider a joke.

Hope it doesn't bend the frame.

My truck is fine on the street, it just doesn't handle the way it did before I started making changes. I think this is where the misunderstanding is.

And by the way, I can read and also spell. "wronge" should be wrong, get a dictionary.

It's pretty easy to do a search and it's even easier to find you talking out your ass. I don't think you remember much of anything anyone else posts here. Sound like you need to have your prescription for your ADD refilled.

Still waiting on pictures of that four wheel smoke!!
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