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  #1  
Old April 1st, 2008, 09:14 AM
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JBfoot
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Joe Barefoot
'94 D90, '07 D110, '08 LR2, '09 D90
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Funky Flasher

Hi...

I've been changing my exterior light bulbs to LED's. Recently, I've replaced the turn signals in the front bumper ('94) with sealed LED units. Here are my symptoms:

When I turn on the right turn signal, it works, but the left front blinks dimly (a few LED's) and both rear turn signals blink. If I turn on the left signal, it works, the right blinks with a few LED's and both rears blink.

If I replace the right front signal with a filament bulb and turn on the right blinker, I get similar results with the other front and both rears. BUT, if I turn on the left blinker, everything works properly. The left LED blinks normally, the right filiment bulb doesn't blink, and only the left rear blinks (and visa-versa if I repalce the left front with a filament bulb).

My thinking is that the only place that all of these lights may be connected is at the emergency flasher. I will look at that tonight. I am also going to try a resistor on the new front LED indicators.

Any electrical guru's out there that have an idea?

Thanks,

Joe Barefoot
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  #2  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:30 AM
4x4sche
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john
73 SIII_ 97 D90_94 Disco
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1) You need an LED type flasher unit.
2) You have to remove or rewire the warning lamp on the dash.

Use the search .....this has been covered.
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  #3  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 11:51 AM
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Joe Barefoot
'94 D90, '07 D110, '08 LR2, '09 D90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4sche
1) You need an LED type flasher unit.
2) You have to remove or rewire the warning lamp on the dash.

Use the search .....this has been covered.
I have the electronic relay. I didn't know about the warning/emergency unit being rewired, but that was my guess. I can't seem to find the post regarding that. Do you know how to rewire that, or could you direct me to the post covering that. You're help is appreciated!
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  #4  
Old April 3rd, 2008, 03:13 AM
4x4sche
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john
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Here is why all four flashing if you have fronts and rear leds
OK here is the scoop. The problem happens only on a vehicle with only a single dash flasher warning lamp (instead of one for left and one for right). My 1997 NAS electrical schematic shows a warning lamp for each direction, but my 1997 D90 only has one light on the dash. typically for Rover, the drawing does not represent my reality. If it was wired with two warnng lamps per the drawing, there would be no problem.

Because of the way it is wired, this warning lamp passes current to the flasher lamps on the opposite side. That is because the warning lamp is actually connected between the lamps on each side. When you have the flashers on, one side is connected to the intermittent 12 volt supply from the flasher unit, and the other side is connected to ground through the flashers on the opposite side. If you just unplug the dash warning lamp, the problem is fixed....but now you don't have a warning lamp. You don't see this problem with the even one of the old regular lamps installed, because the bulb takes all the current passed via the warning lamp and won't even glow. With all LEDS which need far less current to light, they are lit on the opposite side when you don't want this.

The cure: You can wire a separate warning light for each direction, or you can rewire the single light and add two blocking diodes. (about a dollar from Radio Shack).
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  #5  
Old April 3rd, 2008, 11:29 AM
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Joe Barefoot
'94 D90, '07 D110, '08 LR2, '09 D90
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Not to whip a dead horse...

The diode solution sounds clean and simple. Is there a certain diode that will simulate the resistance of a filament bulb. Radioshack has a pile of different ones to choose from. Also, would a diode be needed on both the hot and ground wire, or if only one is needed per LED bulb, does it go in line with the hot or ground?

My name is Joe Barefoot, and I AM an electrical idiot!
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Old April 4th, 2008, 02:34 AM
4x4sche
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john
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OK listen up. The power from the + side of the battery goes first through the flasher relay then to the common terminal of the stalk on your steering column. When you turn on the flashers you make a circuit to the right or the left side. The existing warning dash-lamp is connected directly from the positive side of your left flashers to the positive side of your right flashers. So when you activate your left flashers... the warning light passes current through to your right flasher lamps then to ground. The amount of current passing via the warning lamp is not enough to light the right side lanps....unless they are LED type which will glow with each bright flash of the left side...due to the small amount of current needed to light the warning lamp.

Here are your choices:
1) Have two separate dash indicators one for each side. The positive feed for left and right are presently connected to each side of the warning lamp. You need to separate these and wire each one to its own lamp and the other sides of each lamp to ground........OR...

2) Disconnect each wire from the existing warning lamp. Connect one side of the lamp to ground with a new wire. Connect the striped end of two diodes to the other side of the lamp, connect the none-striped end of each diode to each of the wires that were originally connected to the lamp. Any small diode will do. possible types 1n4149 or 1n4001 or 1n4002 etc. from radio shack.

For the really advanced user you can rework the existing small plastic lamp holder to replace the lamp with an LED and add the diodes and a ground lead. This way it just plugs into the existing dash with no changes. If you did not understand my explanation, probably this will be too difficult.

Good luck.



You need to add two diodes and a ground wire.
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  #7  
Old April 5th, 2008, 11:33 AM
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Joe Barefoot
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It Works!

Finally! First, thanks John for your educating input. I appreciate your time and effort. Sorry to say that I could not get the diodes to work for me. I tried wiring two on the hot side in parallel, in series, and both ways on the ground side. Still same symptoms.

What finally did work (and I'm not sure why) is wiring a load resistor across the hot and ground wire. These are sold as a "Load Resistor Kit", 6 ohm, 50 watt at superbrightled.com (link above). This is in addition to the electronic flasher. The load resistor kits are usually used at each LED turn indicator to simulate the load of a filament bulb, thus make a regular flasher relay flash correctly. That would take one resistor per LED turn indicator bulb. In my case, I just used two resistors on the front, in bumper, LED indicators. Those somehow prevented the feedback through the hazard switch causing all of the weird symptoms.

So, if anyone is still interested, parts to replace the turn indicators in the bumper on '94 90's and '93 110's are:

Two, 6 ohm, 50 watt load resistor kits
Two Trucklite Model 60 LED 6 inch oval lamps, value line

I got the LED lamps from Levine auto http://www.levineautoparts.com/vali6ovledla.html . I also replaced the gromets with new ones. The are a bit deep for the LED lamps, but that leaves room to stick the load resistor in the gromet behind the lamp, making a pretty clean looking install. I know the resistors can get hot, but I think that is with more constant current and not the brief intermittent current that a turn signal needs.
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